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11/15/2018 3:15:17 AM
77
Deter-A-Friend
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Why Forsaken’s sales are not meeting target
I have 3 friends who purchased D2 late in Y1. They all had a blast with the core game, but the progression system is opaque and nonsensical to those coming from other looter shooters. Rewards and progression should be time equivalent. But due to the capabilities of the D1 faithful and professionals in burning through content, the milestone system was put into place to slow down progression. It didn’t work. The hardcore were barely inconvenienced and the folks who, let’s say, played crucible to max light in D1, couldn't effectively do that, and outside the powerful gear drop – progression stopped.
With Foresaken, this got worse – even when the amount of things to do (challenges, bounties, etc.) increased - because progression got more opaque and less linear, as not all powerful gear is the same. (I know the method, but it is not clear from the in-game tooltips, and I can’t comprehend Bungie’s reliance on Reddit.)
Now, the time gating make this even worse. These friends have time, but not consistently. Say, one runs a restaurant – he works 12-16 hours Thursday to Sunday, and recoups Monday. He will never get the Whisper as his play time is Tuesday and Wednesday. One of the others is in a band, so his time is in blocks, effectively making it impossible to complete a 3 week curse cycle. The last runs his own company, and doesn’t have a lot of time to ‘work’ on power and will be perpetually behind us – but has the cash to blow on a game he plays once a week with his friends.
See why your sales tanked? These are people who would easily purchase the game, but I actively deterred them from the purchase because the only successful play style in Foresaken is massive time sink (streamer/professional/no lifer).
If your game content isn’t completely available every time a player logs in, the only barriers being skill and power, your sales will not increase and I will actively deter-a-friend (or 3).
It should be possible to give the hardcore a mode/progression path in which to show off, and still allow for the more casual people to experience all the content at their leisure.
English
#destiny2
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I agree 100%. I also this their sale didn’t meet the sale expectation is largely due to Eververse. They want us to pay $10 bucks (5 bucks each) for the Whisper of the Worm Ornaments, $10 bucks for the two Thunderlord Ornaments etc. these things should be obtainable via Gameplay, people who cherish their money see this as a waste of money. I think they didn’t meet their Sales Expectations is cause Bungie refuses to listen to their Community. The Forums was flooded with #RemoveEververse and Bungie refused to listen and remove her and making all her goods obtainable via Strikes, Raids Etc. Bungie/Activision are greedy people who want to nickel and dime us to death. So there are many factors to consider that are responsible for their failures to each their sales goal. Unfortunately, their solution is to add more Monetizations. Which will draw more people away from the Game. I bought D2 and plan on seeing it thru, but after this Game is over and everyone has moved to D3, I’ll be moving over to Anthem when it releases. D3 will be a Monetization Nightmare and I won’t be apart of that.
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I've pre-ordered every bungie offering since Halo 3 and still have not bought Forsaken. D2 was so many steps backwards along with reintroduced errors, overly finicky timing based raids, completely crap p2p pvp again, and artificial progress restrictions. Basically d2 broke the screen time hold that destiny had and now other games are filling in. Waiting for forsaken to hit clearance prices as well as any other bungLe titles in the future.
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As for the Whisper thing I think they really need to un-timegate old quests in general. If it's been out for two months then remove the timegate. Let me play the quest not on weekends and four times in a row if I want. I don't see the big deal when the catalyst has been available for a while. Also with regards to the Sleeper catalyst.. how do they expect people to get it if they haven't done Spire before? It legit locks you out of Prestige if you haven't and the only groups that run it are Prestige... furthermore almost all require experience. Which sucks considering a lot of people quit the game during the time Spire came out. I know I did until Forsaken.
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I feel as long as facts are given out, then let the person decide. The other day, someone asked if they should get D2. I basically said that if you have friends that will play with you consistently, then this game is great for you. If you don't either accept that you won't get to do everything or don't play. Playing solo after a while is a major grind mentally.
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You are not entirely wrong, but you are when you said the original (vanilla) milestone system was designed to slow progression. It wasn’t. It was designed for casual players to be able to progress at a speed comparable to hardcore players. That is why you could progress through simple, non- endgame activities such as quick play crucible and strikes. Obviously you [i]should[/i] be able to progress through those activities but, not to max power because that’s too simple. In d1, progression slowed to a point where exotic drops, and high level activities such nightfalls, raids and trials of Osiris granted final progression. In forsaken a lot of the progression was improved in the fact that simple activities provided good initial progression, while more difficult activities provided the best progression (raids, shattered throne, resetting crucible or infamy ranks), however, progression could still be achieved daily through prime engrams. On paper this is a [u]great[/u] system, but after playing this system with two characters, I agree that progression was a long and often annoying, tedious process. However I do think it should take a time commitment and progression [i]should[/i] be distributed over different areas of content catering the play styles of different players. Hardcore players should and will always progress faster than casuals because they put more time into the game into areas that will progress them in the game. That’s all.
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I loved (note past tense) everything about Destiny franchise in D1 and to some extent I was even aligned with bdf in D1. Now all my mates have moved on to other (dare I say shittier) games. I am not enjoying the experience anymore as clan comradare is also dead as compared to d1 due to the milestone mechanics. PvP is just Luna's and NF fest so a bit dull unless you have one. TLDR; I was holding on false hope and now I only see despair...
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6 답변작성자: Kisga 11/16/2018 6:29:32 AMIt’s like this with almost any online game like this. This games requires time and if you don’t have that ten don’t play it simple as that. This is why I HIGHLY recommend looking into all games a great deal before purchasing. I play warframe and boy if you think D2 requires grind time don’t even download it. Players not having time to play is mostly their problem. Sometimes clan mates can’t be on and eh it happens but not being able to grind so you can do the higher activities is simply just on you. Bungie won’t change a quest or the weekly rotation just because a small chunk of players aren’t able to complete it. The time gating is ok imo for the most part as long as it isn’t an unreasonable amount of time like thunderlord. 3 weeks for one gun is a bit of a stretch. Although being able to do super end game content requires a solid amount of time there is still plenty to do in forsaken aside from the raid and dungeon. And even then it really doesn’t take a massive amount of time as there are plenty of places to get powerful gear. Everything being readily available is what absolutely killed the player base in the beginning of D2 which is why they are moving toward a more grind intensive game which is what most people like. My suggestion is that you and everyone else who aren’t happy with how the game feels right now actually do some research before making a purchase. Also casual players shouldn’t be able to run through the same content as the more hardcore players at their leisure. It’s end game and this is a multi player focused game.
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13 답변작성자: Zoidberg 11/15/2018 7:57:13 PMI disagree to a point. I have a friend who only gets on for a few hours every other night. I help him as much as possible. Before long he was in the first few encounters in the raid. I helped with any dreaming city and such. This game is meant to be a social experience. Join a clan, lfg, and ask friends for help. This game has just become late game achievable solo. Yes it takes longer. I didn't raid till I was 600. Reducing the time it takes to do stuff and reducing the difficulty, is what happened in d2 start and it tanked the game hard, like really hard. Are there changes to be made or added regarding matchmaking, definitely. But this game is modeled after the concept of long term mmo like investment. And I for one, like it that way.
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4 답변I tried to get 4 friends to sign up. All decided to pass do to the horrible matchmaking and the use of P2P. There is ZERO excuse to use P2P in this day in age other than GREED!!!
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1 답변작성자: W33DEDPLAGUE 11/15/2018 7:30:55 PMWhile I mosty agree, I feel like players are in a rush to be first and at the top at all times...the game does encourage you to feel that way but there is also nothing wrong with taking a few months to get through everything...it's always there and there is no need to feel FOMO like people seem to do often...you don't have to beat the raid the day it comes out, you don't have to hit 600 in the quickest possible time, and you don't have to get whisper as soon as it's discovered...there is no shame in being a little behind, there is always time to catch up (except for seasonal things like triumphs and eververse items but do people REALLY need all that stuff?) In fact, I believe bungie made forsaken the way they did because it's supposed to last an entire year...the annual pass is little drugs of content to keep it fresh but forsaken is the overall plot to carry through those...the curse storyline won't even end until February so we are meant to not be able to do everything by black armory...it's why exotics and titles are so rare and involved and why rng is so tough on us with cosmetics and such...take your time if you need to, we have plenty of it before the next big thing in destiny
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4 답변Wow, so much entitlement in this thread. As a contrast to your experience, myself and 3 friends came back to destiny after nearly a year, and have thoroughly enjoyed the direction Forsaken has taken.
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8 답변Bungie, the TTK is awful! Reduce TTK and make us feel powerful. Waaaahhhh, why did you do this? It is nothing but shotgun rushers and Nova Warp! Bungie, there is nothing to do! It is pathetic; the campaign is sooo short and I have everything. There is no motivation to play!!! Why is this soo grindy? I paid for Forsaken and I deserve the content. Bungie is just trying to force us to play more by making us grind. We never wanted that!!! Bungie, you never listen!!!! Bungie: 😔
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As the core is now free to play, more curious players come and see how this game goes. I have met a few, who are also disappointed with the system inside : poor timing , poor RNG, short campaign . They have completed the Red War within 1 day, just wondering around and looking for what they can do more. The very only thing that all agree is the graphic. Yes , they are undoubtedly beautiful. There are insufficient activities (not grinding) for us to enjoy the game itself. I don't want to keep playing PVP for a Lunar or Gambit for a Mal. I like quests like Thunderlord, simple going and interesting . Bungie needs to make more quests like this. I have also noticed the number of exotics and new stuff from Forskane is pretty small, comparing to yr 1 D2. In yr1 D2 you can easily get them and the numbers is so large, but now it is hard to locate one and it takes over-weighted timing to get it.
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2 답변So, if all the content isn't released all at once, that makes it a bad game, and pisses you off so much that you actively push other players away from it for that reason? Destiny 2 was never meant to be that type of game... And we all saw how this place reacted when it tried to be...
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2 답변Sad part of all this is that Bungie used to be a good company. Well, I don't know what it was like working there, but they knew how to make a good game. But somewhere around the time of the end of Halo: Reach and Halo: Anniversary, they really went off the rails and got progressively worse. Maybe all their best talent got poached by 343 Industries, who knows. Sad that such a great game development company has fallen so far, so fast. Soon they'll be no better than Activision (another company that shares its name with a company that used to make great games).
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1 답변Yea, Bungie should cater to the people that can only play 2 hours a week. Thats a winning strategy.
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1 답변I actually disagree. The three-week cycle makes it more varied. The week-end specials makes logging in on Saturday exciting. While you may not like it, others do. Your examples are not representative of the general player population. You need 1) a very casual player with limited playtime; 2) a schedule that makes said playtime always on the exact same days; and 3) a player who is a completitionnist and can't enjoy the game if they don't get everything in the game. Those players are not the target audience of Destiny, with good reason. For them to be able to achieve anything in-game, you need not only to make everything available all the time, but also lower the grind. Your friend who plays 4-5 hours a week, always on Tuesdays and Thursdays is not the type of players Destiny is built for. I do not mean that in a condescending way; each person has a different type of games made for them. Your friend is better off playing a shorter game, perhaps even a single-player game. Finally, sales have not tanked, quite the opposite. Yesterday, 1.6 million players played PVE and 1 million player PVP. In the last six months of Y1, the numbers were consistently 900k and 500k (I looked regularly). Forsaken is, by all metrics, a commercial success and an outstanding entry in the franchise, sales-wise, especially considering how Y1 was hated.
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1 답변Balancing for casuals and nolifers is like trying to balance for PvE and PvP. You can’t please all the people all the time
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It’s the nature of the beast. A lot of players get dumped if they have a life issue that causes them to fall behind their usual mates in power or weapons. They log back in a couple of days later and their raid team has replaced them with someone else. I’ve seen this happen countless times. To get the most out of D2 you really need to treat it like it’s a full time job with a lot of required overtime.
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1 답변Oh cool. Another one of these. Is there a raid spray for complainers or is that only for domestic pests?
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2 답변Me personally I've had no issue with this and I play weekends only. Sure things that are timegated could go away aside from events, no big deal there. I would love to see the Whisper quest be available at all times. But the 3 week curse cycle is cool and catering to people who can only play in the kind of time frames you're mentioning simply cannot be catered to without removing some pretty cool things many of us enjoy simply because your schedules don't line up with Bungie's. Its a game and you just need to deal with that reality. If you can only play once a week you're not going to really get far in any game that's even somewhat similar to Destiny. You wouldn't even get that much done in an Assassin's Creed game only playing once a week so the issue simply is game choice. And you don't need to no life to get far. Again, weekends only and I've cleared every raid in the game, I still have spare time, etc. It's about how you pace and manage your time in game. if you want to do something you need to set your mind to it. If you have an issue with that then you have a lot to learn. For me aside from the stupid bug of things not dropping above my power during my power level grind it was fine. Not that big of a deal to be honest. Got everything except for a few activities done in one day then finished up the next day in a few hours then I pursued other things. I personally think they did the power level grind fine (again aside from the bug). Although with things like the World's First raid that was just stupid. Everything about it was stupid from the chest glitch, to only a few fireteams able to go for it, etc. Now about your statement on game content not always being available that's on you. It's clearly stated that this game is a live service when you look at any descriptions of the game. When a game is a live service that means not everything will be available and that's just how it works. In short, it's not as bad as you think. Just manage your time well and focus and you'll get through. The fun will happen along the way, don't try and force it. Many players have been making that mistake from day 1 of D1 and its apparent. This is a looter shooter MMO RPG hybrid so some things are going to be closer to things like WoW while other things will be more casual. That's my 2 cents on things coming from someone who only plays on the weekends (except for summer) who has been playing since late Year 1 of D1.
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