I put up a post with what I felt were doable solutions to making endgame better the other day and it was really cool to see the support it got, but also how many people were willing to add their thoughts and opinion on them. Two of the things that stood out the most are that people really love Xur and there is a very passionate divide on static weapons. On that second topic, after many discussions with other Guardians, I have been thinking about a way to kind of have the best of both worlds and improve the game with out breaking it.
We all know how fickle RNG was in D1. Some were blessed by RNGesus and others never got the drops they endlessly grinded for. We also know how absolutely Bungie were unable to balance around all the myriad of weapons and rolls.
I got to talk Destiny with the DTR Podcast crew last night and Reythos made the point of having to carry multiples of every good weapon in D1 trying to find the best and it resonated with me because at the end of D1 I had 5 Hopscotch Pilgrams on me that were all slighly different that I'd rotate through trying to find the best one.
I don't miss that.
I'm going to say right now that I do like static rolls over what we had for most of D1. The exception would be HoW which to me was the absolute best balanced era of D1 and the reason was re-rolling. Literally any weapon could be good enough to compete with because we could build them exactly how we wanted. It might have taken a lot of attempts, but everyone was able to have a weapon loadout that fit how they wanted to play. In all other eras of the game we were completely beholden to RNG and most of us never had sets of weapons we loved with the perk combos we wanted.
D2 looked to simplify things for many reasons. First and foremost was most likely to make the game easier to balance, but I also think the static weapons were part of a larger movement to make the game as accessible as possible to everyone and not just those who grind endless hours playing. To this end I think we've all seen that they took things too far and in doing so unwittingly neutered their own endgame to where they've had to mea culpa on it and ask for our feedback.
I know there are a lot of players who feel that one of the answers is to bring back RNG weapon rolls, but I disagree. I don't want the dumpster fire that was D1 weapon balancing back and maybe the solution was too conservative, but there was a legitimate problem that needed correcting. So the question then is how do we fix it.
What I think would work is the best of what D2 has done and the best of what d1 did combined. To that end I think that weapon rolls should remain static but the fix is in the mod system.
Currently we can add mods to our weapons to add +5 power level to kinetics and +5 elemental power to energy weapons and while it's nice to be able to change elements at will, it's kind of a false front on customization. What I would like to see is a second mod slot added to legendary weapon and with those give us the ability to apply mods like 3rd Eye, Explosive Rounds, Stability, Range, enemy highlighting, custom scopes, etc.
It keeps in place the system where everyone have access to the exact same weapons and it gives everyone equal access to setting up those weapons as to how they like to play the game and to me that should be the absolute first tenet of weapons in this game. I don't think it needs to be a huge number of possible customization either and can vary a bit by weapon type, but I think the game needs something to let us take the weapons we love and make them a little more how we'd like them to be.
Then there are raid/trials weapons and how to make them stand out without braking balance and while I initially thought maybe yet another mod slot, I think that is pushing it too far, but again they need something to stand out as true high level endgame rewards. I don't know what the answer is here, but weapons like Chaos Dogma, Funky Steel Medula etc in D1 and the raid Sword and Rocket Launcher in Leviathan manage to stand out and feel special. Another thought is maybe allowing raid weapons to be switchable between multiple RoF archetypes.
I think that D2 has done a lot right with weapons and I think there are a lot more great weapons in this game than people realize (my Iron Banner kinetic is the blue Cuboid Aru). I see diversity in play (though a definite leaning towards ARs) but if I'm on my Titan or Warlock, I don't think it benefits the game to feel like you have to equip MIDA to use 3rd Eye, etc.
Anyway, just one idea on how it could be improved. Interested to hear other solutions that go beyond leave it or go back to D1's systems. Thank you.
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I say each weapon should have 3-5 separate predetermined roles. One could be a high-speed build with good handling and reload, while another roll could focus more on range and accuracy, but the point is all 5 rolls would have fixed perks. This would mean there is no one "best roll" because bungie could ensure all 5 were balanced, and also offers replayability because you can shoot for the roll you want. Because the rolls would be fixed, each roll could give the gun certain aesthetic differences such as a laser sight or a visibly larger magazine.
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14 답변Static rolls are a stupid byproduct of the participation trophy mentality. Why should a casual player be at a disadvantage against someone who puts more time into the game? Because that other player put MORE TIME INTO THE GAME. This isn't a hard concept. Why should that guy at work (who puts in more hours than me) make more money than me? Because he works more hours. I believe this and I've been barely more than a casual since RoI. People who play more should have a chance at more. Or bring back reforge in its entirety. Screw the nerfherders and the tryhards with fragile egos. But the whiners will say that they hardcore players will have more opportunities to reforge than the casuals. This is all a circular circle jerk of an argument. This game is where it is because Bungie has no real vision for this franchise, other than selling as many copies as possible and then rinse and repeat for the next DLC.
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작성자: LucentDust 10/16/2017 2:36:39 PMI miss the rolls honestly, because it was a part of the endgame that kept me going... That being said, having an improvement on mods could make up for that. Currently, the mod system is about as basic as possible, adding other perks (even doubling on armor perks honestly... Or have a unique perk built in on endgame gear) and implementing a change, possibly along the lines of what you were saying, would help the game significantly. However, this doesn't help the "20th better devils" issue, where duplicates mean nothing. This is somewhat a side issue, somewhat along the same premise, but it's an issue that needs answered asap for the games continuity.
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HoW balanced? Tell that to my nerwins mercy.lol Static rolls are necessary if you ever want weapon balancing. Question is, do you want balance or do you want your God roll weapon back? Those that answer God roll just want an advantage cause they are a scrubby bubby.
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15 답변Here we go again. This constant game we keep playing where we talk about static rolls and tap dance around the true issue at hand. The only reason static rolls are a thing is because of PVP. When you man up and accept this then we can have a true and honest discussion on the issue. PVP needs to be completely separated from PVE and that's the bottom line. As we've seen Bungie has proven themselves incapable of balancing the needs of both groups. As to the final line of the OP's post, well not much has to be said on that. If all options aren't on the table, then why even have this discussion?
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1 답변Make mods more powerful. I see potential in how Warframe's mods work, though obviously not as strong as in Warframe.
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2 답변I like the idea to have a mod slot that adds perks, however... Devils Advocate What's to stop everyone from taking the best auto rifle (Uriel's Gift) and then just adding Third eye, exp rounds, stability etc? It will still be the best gun just bcuz at its BASE its the best gun. I don't want to sh!t on ur post, cuz I think its a cool idea, but I don't think it would change the game [i]enough[/i] to be noticeable.
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2 답변I agree that D2 did a lot right with weapons (and balance in particular, even if Autos are a little hot in PvP), and I think they put just enough diversity in place to allow Guardians to find the gun that fits them. My concern with allowing selectable weapon mods is the potential for the D1 "meta-cycle" to pop back up in D2. It's a well-thought-out idea, and on its face it seems like a good compromise - I would go one step further and say the selectable-mod slot should be restricted to things like Third Eye, additional scopes, enemy highlighting, maybe an Unflinching-style perk for clutch moments, things which affect playstyle (and require a trade-off, knowing maybe you can highlight enemies but they can see you while ADS, or you'll flinch less at a critical moment but may not know when someone's spawning behind you outside those tight gunfights) but not the weapon itself...those are good ideas, if everyone has access to the same pool of mods. Messing around with range and stability, or adding high-caliber or explosive rounds or messing with intrinsic perks...I'd rather see the weapons themselves drop with the perks and balances Bungie intended, and not start custom-building weapons that operate outside their intended roles. If we're going that route, I'd rather just see a Legendary "X-Weapon-Type" Blueprint that we can allocate points to, build our own and adjust the range/stability/perks/RoF/mag size/etc. within archetypal confines (which is a HORRIBLE idea, for the record), as opposed to someone running a full-auto Nameless Midnight with enhanced stability or an Origin Story with explosive rounds or maxed range. Down that road there be many Clever Dragons. :) I think you're on the right track with the weapon mods idea, and with a few tweaks it beats the hell out of RNG - gives the players some choice without turning overall weapon balance (which I think Bungie actually think about more than most give them credit for) on its head again. I'm not a Raid or Trials player, but I do think your idea about making end-game weapons Archetype-selectable is a really cool idea - makes them unique, but doesn't give them unfair power against non-end-game players. Or maybe even give Raid guns an additional perk that is only effective against non-Guardian targets for continued PvE exploration. As far as I'm concerned, Trials weapons should be purely cosmetic for bragging rights, since there isn't really a PvP "end-game" - Trials players shouldn't have any advantage over non-Trials players in standard Crucible matches, but the selectable-Archetype model would be an acceptable balance.
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작성자: spencerIVhire 10/16/2017 1:14:28 AMSigh!!!!!!!!! Sols D2 took a fall way earlier then I hoped for. I do agree the mod system is bungies saving grace. I agree that xur needs to go way ..... but if he stays gave him quest to sale for exotics like the old thorn or pocket infinity quest from D1 and sale them at a steep price that will make u think about using most of your shards As far as endgame I went from 300 plus raids in D1 to running it 2times in D2 and after I saw tokens and no drops after hours on day one to just clear bath and gauntlet I haven’t cared to play it again.... same goes for rushing through nightfall’s to get nothing worth the headache....hummm sounds like D1 year 3. I also think the ships sales should be taken from eververse and given back to Amanda a long with here rare blue ships . I know I haven’t said much on helpful feed back so this is what I got :Return raids to D1 loot set up :Return Iron Banner to D1 set up and bring back the cinematic... and fix the story what u for got about the other Iron lord and why is Tyra at the farm..... where is shiro -4... just saying :Return nightfalls to whatever the end of year 3D1 was called with specific night fall loot or vanguard since its Zavala’s baby :Bring back D1 y3 strike set up with scoring and specific loot :Maybe only do tokens for plant Npc’s :For trials try hards and to bring in casuals maybe shorten the amount of rounds and enable light level for entry.... say 300 or 295 :And I think it’s time to bring in that black spindle , touch, or sleeper quest Or....... DO SOMETHING LIKE SHIP COMBAT or A TRUE COMBINED ARMS Sigh back to trying to get IB warlock boots... rank 22 and counting Oh and I use a blue scout on my Titan for IB it’s a MIDA without 3rd eye might put it on my hunter with knuckle head
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They just need to say screw it and put in d1s armor and weapon system i hadnt really played d1 before i actually played d2 before i played d1 and i like my pos blue gears on d1 more than the exotics i get in d2 just sucks that d2 has been such a let down in all aspects it truly does pale in comparison to d1. I honestly at this point would rather trade in d2 and use the money to get the expansions in d2.
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Separate competitive pvp from pve, generic gear for conpetitive pvp, and go back to D1 for casual pvp and for pve- rng rolls and everything. If casuals get tired of getting pubstomped because they dont have a meta/godroll, they can simply play competitive. Not perfect but its a realistic way they can cater to ALL crowds.
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2 답변Balance, balance, balance..... I want un-balanced I like being op,I like one shotting mobs, I like being fast and staying invisible for a long period of time, balance is boring.
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작성자: fortunatedad 10/15/2017 9:45:43 PMWas an idea I posted in another thread as well... Maybe we could "prestige" the weapons we really like. We get it fully leveled, but if we want more from it because we like it we can do some thing more to add an extra mod. Maybe click on something like "prestige" like infusion in order to re rank it to earn a mod slot, or do something like get certain types of kills with it...etc. make it more a grind, but like the Midas or swords of d1, or thorn, etc. my thoughts anyway. If it's a gun I like, I will put time and energy into it to make it better. Edit- Same could be done with gear. Do it like the exotic class items. If it's a piece of gear I really like, I will grind strikes for it, or pvp, or whatever to get an extra mod slot. Of course, they would need to make new mods worth grinding for. But a lot of us did it for the class items. Many didn't all the same. They didn't feel they were worth it. But the hard core players get sets more tailored to them, and get to grind for it which is what bungie wants. Again, just thoughts.
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Modified reforge has been my argument since day 1. Even if you get a strike specific piece of loot it should be tied in to certain stuff and come with reforge options. Completing a prestige nightfall means you can reforge guns while wearing the weekly aura. Trials means you can reforge or replace parts of wearing the aura. Iron banner means reforge ready weaken reaching rank x........ (Screw these fcking tokens) Something worth grinding for - but obtainable. Even one perk drops fixed and one is reforge ready at the guns smith. That way it's fair without the entirety of RNG or boredom of fixed rolls.
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1 답변Iike it but there would need to be weapon specific mods because if explosive rounds on am auto rifle dosent sound op I don't know what does
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1 답변I like the extra mod slot idea. I've heard it brought up. I have switched from mida to vigilance wing with only a slight drop off to my normally bad performances lol
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How about a set of static perks, like the first perk in each column, with the rest of the perks being random rolls that can be re-slotted with perks you can get from dismantling other weapons. Move all the reload/handling/stability perks into mods. Add some more perk slots and mod slots to compensate for all this. In the Crucible only that static set of perks will be active, but while the Iron Banner is up that restriction would be removed.
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