There have been too many instances where I have joined raid groups where other fireteam members have railed on players who weren't 100% familiar with the mechanics of any given fight, and I wanted to submit this post to share with you all some ways that we can make raiding a better experience for all players involved regardless of skill level.
I want you all to know that you can invite a novice guardian to a raid and still beat it easily as long as you properly teach him or her. It's important to understand that, however well intentioned you may be when dealing with inexperienced players, you may not be aware that your instructions can be vague, misleading, or inappropriate for the player you are trying to teach. So here are my own tips:
[b]1. Teach to the lore.[/b] These raids have some wacky mechanics to be sure. But by explaining what the mechanics have to do with the lore of the game, you are framing a proper context and giving a purpose to the fight. Always explain the objective first (for example: "we have to help the taken guardian find his or her way back to our dimension by creating a pathway to the deathsinger 's brand") so that the fight feels less gimmicky and, in turn, more sensible.
[b]2. Understand that there are strategies within strategies--do not overlook any nuance.[/b] It is easy to overlook a small step in raiding that can mean the difference between a kill and a wipe because we don't properly assess what is going wrong. There are many nuanced strategies in each raid that can make things a lot easier for all members of a team, and if you are teaching how to raid you need to be familiar with at least most of them. For example, having two hunters on the first and third plates during the Oryx fight will improve performance because they can both tether the middle lane after killing their ogres, trapping the light eater knights and instantly and solving the problem of keeping the Knights away from the bombs. Another example would be the first gaze holder during the Golgoroth fight. He or she can use a machine gun to shoot the first bubble down, switch to primary, and take the ogres gaze, making the job much easier for the rest of the team.
[b]3. Give a guided tour of all routes for each player before the fight begins.[/b] Don't just tell players where to go, show them where to go. And don't just show them, show them how by literally having them run beside you as you demonstrate movement routes throughout a fight. Show them what to shoot and what not to shoot, and when. Tell them, for instance, what they are and are not responsible for. I can't stress that last part enough, because many players die due to burdening themselves with too many unnecessary tasks. A plate holder doesn't need to shoot acolytes--he or she only needs to kill the ogre, and then kill their knight. A aura holder doesn't need to shoot the Warpriest, only the acolytes in 7 to 9 second intervals. Any teacher who properly addresses this in a fight will find that any novice player can hold their own.
[b]4. Create a communication code.[/b] You should establish from the very beginning what everyone should say, and when. It's a given that communication is important, but too much talking over the mic will almost always cause a wipe. Be sure that you establish what everyone should say and when. Keeping it simple, like saying "runner up", "1 up", "2 up", "3 up", "I have the orb", "knight 4 down", "vessel down", "Oryx chest", "Oryx slamming", "run to bombs", "detonate in 3, 2, 1" will make the fight a lot easier. And notice that what I just wrote is basically the entirety of a whole round against Oryx. You literally do not have to say more than 30 words to defeat Oryx on hard mode! Think of it another way--which is the better statement: "I'm taken, someone needs to take my plate", or "Plate 3 taken, middle replace plate 3"? The second line keeps confusion to a minimum and will save you a lot of time and effort. Bad communication is just as bad as no communication, remember that!
[b]5. If you are imposing weapon and high light requirements, you're already doing it wrong.[/b] Let me be clear: you do NOT need a Touch of Malice to beat Oryx. You never needed a Gjallarhorn to beat Crota. You don't need a Black Spindle to finish Golgoroth. And you DEFINITELY do not need 335 light to finish a raid. Yes, these things make the fight easier. But a well taught team will ALWAYS perform just as well if not better than a team with maxed gear and specs. It's time to let that go. If you are the expert raider that you think you are, then you need to stop ignoring players who have the potential to be good raiders but can't because they don't have a weapon that you like! Remember, all of us had to beat the raid at least once without the Touch of Malice, right? So trust in the potential of a player who is willing to learn!
[b]6. Be aware of the difference between an inexperienced player and a "noob".[/b] Inexperienced players are those who are willing to learn, while "noobs" are immature, hardheaded players who do not listen to what is being taught to them. Be sure that, when creating a team of novice guardians, that you want players that are willing to follow orders and trust in their leader. When you have a team of mature guardians, you will know that the fight can be won, regardless of how much experience they have.
[b]7. Be kind![/b] It's amazing to me how often kindness is an overlooked quality among many guardians. This is exactly why I prefer to play with newer players over seasoned ones, because seasoned players are too often jaded by their experiences and less willing to be patient and kind to others. If a new player fails at his or her job, be nice about it! Refer to my second step--assess and reteach, and do it nicely! When you are mean to a guardian you are making that guardian worry not only about the fight, but about being insulted by you, which will only make his or her performance worse. I have been in many teams of "seasoned" players who failed, and I have been in many teams of "novice" players who have succeeded, all for this very reason!
So that's it for me, for now at least. I just felt that this is important because I feel terrible whenever I join teams where people blame others for failing. There's already a lot of toxicity in Destiny, so help it be a better game by being a better guardian for yourself and others!
-Skyrender6
POST EDIT: The positive response to this discussion really shows that we've got a great community here, even if it doesn't always show. Lord knows that I've been impatient, but it's never too late to rethink what your role is in a game like this and to pay kindness forward. Because at the end of the day, you're playing with five other human beings at the other end of that connection. And they may be strangers to you, but so are you to them!
Thank you all for your honest responses, and that includes those who disagree with my points as well, because your honesty is key in understanding why the conflict exists in the first place. Bungie, we need to talk more about this because I just know that your game will be an even greater success if you take an active role in teaching raid etiquette and inclusionary tactics!
English
#Destiny
-
Awesome post this one buddy. You pretty much nailed it all right here and I can relate to nearly all of it. People get in a comfort zone after they've been raiding for several months and forget just how hard it is to keep up under pressure while trying not to screw up as a first-time raider, all while trying to understand the mechanics, why the mechanics are relevant and also while trying to do your bit and shoot stuff. Raiding would be far more accessible to the masses if people like you were at the helm. Well done.
-
Well said, and quite timely for me. Just transitioned from ps4 to xbone after taking the last year off from Destiny, so I've never completed KF at all, and on this profile I have no raid completions of any kind though I have beaten vog and crota on ps4. Honestly it's almost a little nerve wracking because I've been in those bad groups of random players before and I've been in great groups, and especially now when my experience looks like less than it really is AND I'm still trying to gear back up and increase my light.
-
20 답변Well I cant teach someone how to stay alive in tottems I tell what they do and they die anyway so I aint gonna waste time with a fake 335 who claims their experienced and cant even follow simple tips in tottems. as for oryx and sisters well they can just git gud all you have to do is kill your knights and acolytes rgen when runner says go you leave your plates if you cant do that then I cant do anything about that. in sisters stop being lazy and learn how to run try it out on normal then hard.
-
1 답변Hey all you fantastic Sherpa's -- been looking for a tutorial group for King's Fall on [b]PS3[/b] for longest time! Actually got flawless trophy on VoG due to a kind leader. Spent a few hours/day over couple days to get it. Devil of a time finding group for KFR. I've got all 3 characters at 334/335, good guns, etc. Appreciate normal mode first. Send message on PSN about this (not just blank friend request ) or message me here? PSN ID = bevross Thanks!
-
I find it hilarious when a member of the fireteam gets kicked for not knowing anything about the raid, but then the so-called "pros" can't even pass a single checkpoint without calling for a wipe at least three times.
-
1 답변Last year I stumbled upon Say No To Rage where the streamer was teaching the raid to a couple fireteam members and of course the audience. I thought it was really great, then after a few times watching the channel I began to notice just how much rage the guy had. He would often get frustrated and talk in a condescending way. He was nice about it, but his instructions sucked, because he thought it was so easy I guess. Anyway, your to do list for raid instructors is great and I hope to see more leaders take a more patient route in the future.
-
2 답변One of the best posts I have read on here. I have never completed a full raid and have been playing a long time. This due to EVERYTHING you mention. Thank you!!!!
-
14 답변Good post. I wish someone was willing to teach me stuff in KF HM so I clear it for the MoT in Y2. Playing solo sucks and there aren't a ton of people willing to teach..
-
3 답변I went on hiatus from Destiny because of this very reason. I have never beaten Oryx on Hard. I have only one one Oryx challenge (the Warpriest). I have patience like a monk, but there's a limit. People dying everywhere, communication all over the place, talking over each other, it's chaos. I think that's why I decided I wasn't going to attempt doing the Raid on Hard anymore, because I felt like if I tried, the team would disband like they have been thus far. I would love to own one of the Raid weapons, but I don't think they're worth it anymore, honestly. I've just been slowly trying to bring up my Light Level to 335 now. I think I'll skip this raid, and hopefully, the Rise of Iron raid invokes less frustration. I have my doubts, though.
-
Though either way things like this can only go so far. I've come across way too many people that just seem incapable of learning. Granted depending on what raid you're doing or which part you're at there can be a lot going on. But it just seems like a lot of people arn't made out for that type of environment. No matter how many times you explain things or how much practice they get at it.
-
4 답변is there any groups that would be willing to teach me the raid, i have got to sisters and never got further ( i had 6 month destiny break ) now my regular friends dont play anymore i have 335 titan i want to run thru, i have spindle and sleeper, im adult chilled guy and listen to whats being told xbox one uk time zone
-
2 답변If only we had something where we could look up info on how to do pretty much anything in the world, wouldn't that be great...
-
1 답변작성자: FreakyFirestorm 8/20/2016 8:43:07 AMi just thoroughly and clearly explain the encounter. just went through a raid last night with 4 noobs. now they all know exactly what to do. wasnt really that complex.
-
Yep. However, none of this works with the screaming 6 year olds or the 'I'm better than you because I'm and adult with a Napoleon complex' people. Y'know, the people who you offer to help, but yell at you and say that they know what they're doing, when they CLEARLY don't.
-
I sherpad a group today, nobody in the group has done hard mode and only half have completed normal. we only made it to sisters but god damn was it fun to do, helping them finish tomorrow and it's gonna be hilarious and fun again