There have been too many instances where I have joined raid groups where other fireteam members have railed on players who weren't 100% familiar with the mechanics of any given fight, and I wanted to submit this post to share with you all some ways that we can make raiding a better experience for all players involved regardless of skill level.
I want you all to know that you can invite a novice guardian to a raid and still beat it easily as long as you properly teach him or her. It's important to understand that, however well intentioned you may be when dealing with inexperienced players, you may not be aware that your instructions can be vague, misleading, or inappropriate for the player you are trying to teach. So here are my own tips:
[b]1. Teach to the lore.[/b] These raids have some wacky mechanics to be sure. But by explaining what the mechanics have to do with the lore of the game, you are framing a proper context and giving a purpose to the fight. Always explain the objective first (for example: "we have to help the taken guardian find his or her way back to our dimension by creating a pathway to the deathsinger 's brand") so that the fight feels less gimmicky and, in turn, more sensible.
[b]2. Understand that there are strategies within strategies--do not overlook any nuance.[/b] It is easy to overlook a small step in raiding that can mean the difference between a kill and a wipe because we don't properly assess what is going wrong. There are many nuanced strategies in each raid that can make things a lot easier for all members of a team, and if you are teaching how to raid you need to be familiar with at least most of them. For example, having two hunters on the first and third plates during the Oryx fight will improve performance because they can both tether the middle lane after killing their ogres, trapping the light eater knights and instantly and solving the problem of keeping the Knights away from the bombs. Another example would be the first gaze holder during the Golgoroth fight. He or she can use a machine gun to shoot the first bubble down, switch to primary, and take the ogres gaze, making the job much easier for the rest of the team.
[b]3. Give a guided tour of all routes for each player before the fight begins.[/b] Don't just tell players where to go, show them where to go. And don't just show them, show them how by literally having them run beside you as you demonstrate movement routes throughout a fight. Show them what to shoot and what not to shoot, and when. Tell them, for instance, what they are and are not responsible for. I can't stress that last part enough, because many players die due to burdening themselves with too many unnecessary tasks. A plate holder doesn't need to shoot acolytes--he or she only needs to kill the ogre, and then kill their knight. A aura holder doesn't need to shoot the Warpriest, only the acolytes in 7 to 9 second intervals. Any teacher who properly addresses this in a fight will find that any novice player can hold their own.
[b]4. Create a communication code.[/b] You should establish from the very beginning what everyone should say, and when. It's a given that communication is important, but too much talking over the mic will almost always cause a wipe. Be sure that you establish what everyone should say and when. Keeping it simple, like saying "runner up", "1 up", "2 up", "3 up", "I have the orb", "knight 4 down", "vessel down", "Oryx chest", "Oryx slamming", "run to bombs", "detonate in 3, 2, 1" will make the fight a lot easier. And notice that what I just wrote is basically the entirety of a whole round against Oryx. You literally do not have to say more than 30 words to defeat Oryx on hard mode! Think of it another way--which is the better statement: "I'm taken, someone needs to take my plate", or "Plate 3 taken, middle replace plate 3"? The second line keeps confusion to a minimum and will save you a lot of time and effort. Bad communication is just as bad as no communication, remember that!
[b]5. If you are imposing weapon and high light requirements, you're already doing it wrong.[/b] Let me be clear: you do NOT need a Touch of Malice to beat Oryx. You never needed a Gjallarhorn to beat Crota. You don't need a Black Spindle to finish Golgoroth. And you DEFINITELY do not need 335 light to finish a raid. Yes, these things make the fight easier. But a well taught team will ALWAYS perform just as well if not better than a team with maxed gear and specs. It's time to let that go. If you are the expert raider that you think you are, then you need to stop ignoring players who have the potential to be good raiders but can't because they don't have a weapon that you like! Remember, all of us had to beat the raid at least once without the Touch of Malice, right? So trust in the potential of a player who is willing to learn!
[b]6. Be aware of the difference between an inexperienced player and a "noob".[/b] Inexperienced players are those who are willing to learn, while "noobs" are immature, hardheaded players who do not listen to what is being taught to them. Be sure that, when creating a team of novice guardians, that you want players that are willing to follow orders and trust in their leader. When you have a team of mature guardians, you will know that the fight can be won, regardless of how much experience they have.
[b]7. Be kind![/b] It's amazing to me how often kindness is an overlooked quality among many guardians. This is exactly why I prefer to play with newer players over seasoned ones, because seasoned players are too often jaded by their experiences and less willing to be patient and kind to others. If a new player fails at his or her job, be nice about it! Refer to my second step--assess and reteach, and do it nicely! When you are mean to a guardian you are making that guardian worry not only about the fight, but about being insulted by you, which will only make his or her performance worse. I have been in many teams of "seasoned" players who failed, and I have been in many teams of "novice" players who have succeeded, all for this very reason!
So that's it for me, for now at least. I just felt that this is important because I feel terrible whenever I join teams where people blame others for failing. There's already a lot of toxicity in Destiny, so help it be a better game by being a better guardian for yourself and others!
-Skyrender6
POST EDIT: The positive response to this discussion really shows that we've got a great community here, even if it doesn't always show. Lord knows that I've been impatient, but it's never too late to rethink what your role is in a game like this and to pay kindness forward. Because at the end of the day, you're playing with five other human beings at the other end of that connection. And they may be strangers to you, but so are you to them!
Thank you all for your honest responses, and that includes those who disagree with my points as well, because your honesty is key in understanding why the conflict exists in the first place. Bungie, we need to talk more about this because I just know that your game will be an even greater success if you take an active role in teaching raid etiquette and inclusionary tactics!
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#Destiny
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1 답변I need this because i haven't had a lot of experience in the raid and if I make the slightest mistake I get kicked
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4 답변작성자: superbrianjames 8/20/2016 7:25:54 PMI'll admit, I didn't read your whole post. Personally, I believe unless you prefer to run the raid "blind," there is no reason to not be at least somewhat prepared before you enter a raid. There are plenty of YouTube guilds an videos you can learn from before you start. Unfortunately, most people do not prepare, which is why it can be difficult to teach or get all 6 players on the same page.
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You do need certain weapon requirements, but I agree that it does not mean spindle and malice. But for me, I don't think I would want someone who didn't have a high impact sniper. It's going to be a tough raid if someone is using Plan C.
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작성자: Eiffiks 8/20/2016 6:37:57 PM+ tell them to call for help if needed. Raiding is a team activity, and even though you have a specific task, the team can always think of a way to help whatever is the thing being the problem. Advising gear/perks or simply adapting the tactic slightly. + give them a guardian sitter. The guy who while raiding checks how they do it and gives them tips to help with what they struggle and pat them on the back when they do well/come up with ways to improve or facilitate their task.
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8 답변작성자: ViperWolf21TTV 8/20/2016 5:34:37 PMFirst off teaching a raid group is stupid And before anybody goes to inspect my Bungie stats No I dont have a lot od raid completions But I did enough of them to max out my guardians secondly I know all positions and i am not a scrub 3rd in my groups I only have room for one noob and I make him sit where he wont fail and give him easy task to do And rule number 1 for my groups Always make sure your raid group has A-Listers 1st before you go slumming it with the LFG crowd I am the type who doesn't like spending a whole wasted day with 500 wipes in an attempt to teach a child to walk Sorry And before anybody flames .y post I have been a kind guardian and sherpad people through activities and some of them I am close fri3nds with but hey not any more Once rise of iron comes out of you tell me a subclass is not maxed out or you are missing a necessary weapon for an activity and these things should have been acquired or completed pre DLC You will be removed as a friend I have everything bungie has unlocked for us to get with the exception of tilaloc and Fabian strategy which I dont want and that is by choice So guardians out there who dont know how to raid young or old there is such a thing as youtube please go watch it before you ruin someonea raid team with failure
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I never ask for anything when I look for people when I do the raid. it's always "need 5 for raid" that being said, I have had moments when I had someone use a shotgun on warpriest, and golgoroth. a shotgun. these types of people never will understand that they are only hurting their raid team by not going out and getting weapons that will actually help
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Here's the thing. I'm 29 years old and I work a very demanding tech job (50-60hrs a week). I picked up the raid mechanics very quickly and referenced YouTube before playing. Although I certainly had questions during my first several runs, I think it's presumptuous to assume these complete strangers are in charge of teaching you. I have a very busy schedule and it's ridiculous when people join my raid team under leveled, lacking proper weapons, and expect me to hold their hand through the entire experience. Perhaps this is just me but I think many players should take responsibility for themselves and watch a couple YouTube guides. It's more efficient, they're easier to follow, and your not wasting the time of 5 other people. Stop being so lazy. With that said, I appreciate your post, willingness to teach, and your positive contribution to the community. It's important. Please don't think I'm a jerk just because I don't have the time to teach people year old mechanics. -end rant
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Took two through the raid last night for their first time. One never had because he doesn't have a mic and would always be kicked, the other was just getting back into destiny. It was only normal mode and took a bit of time to explain, but we did it and hopefully they will be more prepared the next time they raid.
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작성자: Darches 8/20/2016 4:38:32 PMIf you can't obtain ToM in King's Fall normal then you're [b]NOT[/b] ready for King's Fall heroic. The requirements are totally justified. And you shouldn't even need a sherpa to figure out normal mode, it's just a few puzzles! I've raided with all sorts of groups and did a little sherpa work but frankly some people are just incapable (of sniping, for example). When you make the same mistake 3 times in a row after being told 3 times how to avoid said mistake, it gets frustrating. That's when I start booting.
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I give this post 5/5 Bacon strips. Too many people get hung up about requirements when only the bare minimum was ever necessary to complete these Raids, as long as the team knew what to do and communicated well. Raiding is my favorite part of Destiny due to the amount of teamwork required. I'm a Coop guy rather than a Competitive guy, so Raids will always be more satisfying to me than a Crucible victory.
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I've only done kings fall 2 times but ice only had the game for a week. I only had suros regime as my only exotic. The people I did the raid with one of them ditched at Oryx saying he didn't feel like teaching the mechanics or wiping 50 times after he couldn't even kill his own damn knight. We completed it shortly after he left. He was 335 I was 311 at that time.
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2 답변Good tips; however, they are those that no matter how many times you tell them how to do something or how things work they just don't get it. Also trying to show them how things work when say fighting Warpriest, Gogo, Sister and Oryx( the shade too). Oh oops forgot to put they glyph's before warpriest.
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1 답변Here is a message to you Bungie . You need to spotlight community heroes like this guy Skyrender in stead of all the overpaid twitch youtubestreamers . I know the streamers do a great job of promoting Your game Destiny , but please show some love to those who want to make a difference in a some what toxic community .
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Awesome post this one buddy. You pretty much nailed it all right here and I can relate to nearly all of it. People get in a comfort zone after they've been raiding for several months and forget just how hard it is to keep up under pressure while trying not to screw up as a first-time raider, all while trying to understand the mechanics, why the mechanics are relevant and also while trying to do your bit and shoot stuff. Raiding would be far more accessible to the masses if people like you were at the helm. Well done.