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작성자: SG553Airborne
8/2/2016 8:47:22 PM
247
An experienced SNIPER'S opinion on Snipers VS. Shotguns discussion
(EDIT: Now that this is trending, id just like to say that the main purpose of this post is to address all of the hate and negativity between users of two very different special weapons with two very different playstyles. Thanks guys)
For a LONG time (mainly since shotguns were nerfed, "coincidentally*) there has been a growing community of anti-sniper vocalists in this community. While this group is annoying to me as a sniper, equally annoying is the group that sadly associates with me: the anti-shotgunners.
Over months of reading through this forum, it has frustrated me to no end see these two groups fight, and it seems to mirror something we see in the modern political sphere: Both sides believe that they are 100% right on 100% of the issues, and they tend to base their opinions often times not on their own personal experiences in life ( or in this case,the game) , but on the opinions of others in their group and very little actual game experience.
In my experience, those who hate on shotgunners are typically the ones who have tried picking up a shotgun, but had very limited success or became frustrated with the high risk of trades and death by primary weapons that come along with using a shotgun. These people see the potential of shotgunning, but cannot master it for themselves. I PERSONALLY find snipers much more suitable for this very reason, especially in 3v3 and elimination where deaths are much more costly to the success of your team. My point? Shotguns take skill, and a lot of it. It isnt the same TYPE of skill (i.e. precision and finesse with a controller) but snipers are definitely much more forgiving and that is why they are my first choice in any elimination game mode.
But wait, shotgunners- youre not off the hook. On the other side, there are the guys who have had the same experience but prefer the fast paced life of a shotgunner. They are percieved as mindless rushers (and some are) but in reality if you let a shotgunner get close enough to kill you before youve killed him with a primary, you deserve it. Its a special weapon. Anyway, I was saying- The group of shotgun fans who always talk shit about sniping are often the ones frustrated by the time it takes to learn decent target acquisition and precision. There is nothing wrong with that, but you CANNOT say that snipers do not take skill.
Please stop spreading this cancer through the community. Both weapon types take plenty of skill, and ill even say it: High impact snipers need body shot damage reduced GREATLY if we ever want a balanced crucible. It is simply too easy to bodyshot primary at the moment.
-SG553Airborne, a semi-pro sniper.
https://destinytrialsreport.com/ps/SG553Airborne
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I remember watching the stream about the April update and all the changes included. I remember that it was said that snipers where a concern because people where engaging in medium to close range with snipers. In "real life" snipers are heavy and have long range scopes and this deters close encounters with snipers. So they made changes to reflect that "real life" behavior. What I believe they truly forgot was some kind of "flinch". If in "real life" I am lucky enough to shoot and hit a sniper that sniper backs off/flinches. In order to keep snipers "real life" if you hit me while I'm aiming at you, I should de-scope or at least the scope should bounce. Here are the patch notes: Reduced the total Ammo Inventory for all Sniper Rifles by roughly 5-7 rounds (exact amount depends on a given weapon’s Magazine and Inventory stats) See Crucible Section Increased base zoom distance on the lowest Zoom scopes Medium to long range scopes remain untouched Added 2 frames of zoom time to sniper zoom Reduced Snapshot perk's zoom time benefit to 20% benefit (was 30%) Reduced Stability across all Sniper Rifle stats so that re-acquiring a target after firing requires more care Zen Moment: Removed perk from all Rare and Uncommon Sniper Rifles I think that shotguns should have an increase in range with maybe a minimal loss in damage based on distance. Also Auto Rifles should have a little more range and damage, this includes Hand Cannons. If Destiny is to feel "real life" when talking about weapons this should be the case, in my opinion. Do you know that a real life hand cannon produces velocities over 2,300 feet per second and with a gain-twist rifled barrel the range accuracy is past 200 yards? I want my Eyasluna to produce those kind of results! Feel more "real life" like.
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1 답변Instead of reducing body shot damage Bungie should increase the amount of time it takes to scope/descope IMO. Remove QuickDraw/Snapshot completely. That way snipers would have to commit to hard scoping a bit more and would not be able to get body/primary off as quickly. It would also prevent snipers from getting blasted in the face only to quick scope and pull off a headshot. I had the later happen for me and against me this weekend. I wish I had the clips to share.
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13 답변Primary weapons were so much better in year one so we didn't have this problem with snipers. Just nerfing and re-nerfing special ammo drops is not going to solve anything. Currently much of trials is dominated by people who don't even use a primary at all and it shouldn't really be that way in my opinion. Primaries need to be buffed a little so people actually like using them. In year one there were a ton of primary weapons that were great fun to use. Now most of them feel like shit. We know there's a problem when GoM and Universal Remote are considered too strong. Both those weapons were rarely used in year one. As far as the actual topic goes both weapon types take skill. Anyone who says otherwise isn't really being honest. I will say that sniping is quite a bit easier in this game than in every other shooter that I've played. There is a lot less tracking the target and more waiting at head height. In most other games you need track your target, follow their head and line up a shot. In this game (oddly enough) snipers wait for the target to enter their sight picture and just pull the trigger. It's a different and mostly forgiving mechanic and currently is a little too strong. Rather than just nerfing snipers or special ammo or whatever we need to focus on making primary weapons something to be feared again. If I engage you from a solid distance with my Grasp, chances are it will take around 4-5 bursts to put you down. It's conceivable that a sniper could miss the first shot, body the second and then primary me before I could get the kill. In year one it wasn't like that. I had a lot of options that really kept snipers in check forcing them to be on point or they were going to die. Currently weak primaries make it a little too forgiving for snipers.
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Hey Op! Thank you for explaining what I have been trying to say for ages, I completely agree with you. In fact the original three special weapon classes were all designed with different skill sets in mind: Snipers: precision aiming Shotguns: space control / movement Fusions: predicting and timing Sidearms are a little different as they are more reactive and usually used to mop up kills or respond quickly to an unpredicted scenario. That's how I see it anyway.
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Well, snipers that use high aim assist rifles are no better than shot gunners who are mindless rushers with a high range+damage shotgun. The truth is that the Crucible is unbalanced. Maps contribute significantly to clusterf*cky situations that bend toward shotgun use--and since shotguns are one-shot or shot-melee kills, they're far more effective (not good, not bad, effective) than other specials. Honestly, I think shotguns need to be reworked and snipers need a decrease to body shot damage/aim assist. Once snipers require a headshot to be rewarded, instead of pussyfooting around with double body shots or finishing with a primary, they'll be fine. If shotguns end up getting reworked, they need look no further than Immobius. It is almost the model shotgun. Decent range with which to shoot, moderate rate of fire, takes multiple shots (2-3, not that bad) to down a target unless they're close enough to make out with. The only thing that would help balance more if they gave shotguns a reworking would be more ammo in reserve and the magazine to compensate. This change would create less stupid rushers, less cheapskate Bunny Syndrome patients, and less frustration all around. From people saying it takes no skill to people saying they have no range, this would be the best change in my book. Logical arguments? Feel free to list them.
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3 답변In reality snipers are hated on because of the ability to still get a quick kill even if you don't headshot. A body shot from a high impact sniper followed up by a primary shot or 2 is enough to clean anyone up easily. But personally I don't see an issue with this. Since we've got maybe 4 maps that have ever existed in destiny where long range actually plays into combat. and 3 of them are not even in rotation these days. People's problems with shotguns stems from the fact of how easy the kill itself is. They don't value the "skill" in keeping close to your enemies all the time. But this hate is also understandable. Since a majority of the maps really favor close quarters. On top of the fact that there are tools in the game that allow us to close the gap easier. Everyone has unlimited sprint with the potential of high agility. Hunters have high agility, bones for pseudo skating, blink, and an increased slide distance, warlocks can skate of sorts and have blink. Titan's have the best skating, shoulder charge, and twilight garrison. I think shotguns are personally fine where they are. Snipers need some love in the fast firing catagory.
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3 답변As a well-versed user in both shotguns and snipers, I believe shotguns are fine but snipers need an increase to flinch. That is all.
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18 답변작성자: Obi Wan Cannoli 8/2/2016 3:28:28 PMFrom someone who mains both: Shotguns take no skill whatsoever. They're the most forgiving gun in any FPS, and Destiny is no exception. In Destiny especially, small maps combined with tight corridors, tons of movement abilities, and no real cqc counters makes them even more forgiving and easy to use. And don't say primaries are a cqc counter, because they're not. Numerous nerfs have taken care of that, unless you use DoP you're not gunning down a shotgunner before they reach you. Sincerely, a semi pro (lol, everyone is) shotgunner/sniper
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4 답변I'm still here .trying to figure out how can you hit me with your shotgun while your during mid jump . I see a lot of players doing it and I have no idea how .
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4 답변
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4 답변Snipers are broken and a body shot takes almost ur whole life from being hit from ur toes to ur neck...they have so much more time to react since primary weapons and shotguns damage, range, accuracy, ammo, and perks all got nerfed...they have so much more time to react they can body shot u-switch to primary-one bullet kill u b4 any primary (besides last word) can kill them...u never were able to do that b4 the nerfing rampage....snipers need more flinch and a body shot reduction...this will reward a headshot instead of oops I missed I'll just switch to my primary n 1 bullet kill u still...and by adding more flinch it will stop snipers from headshotting u when u are shooting there face off... I snipe, fusion, and shotgun...I just want balance....it's common sense they need adjustment when everything else has been nerfed numerous times...
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1 답변My only issue as a shotgunner is that we've been hit by nerfs and snipers have only really been touched in that patch a few months ago but even then Shortgaze/Longview/Ambush are still really amazing to use. Snipers should also not be able to pull off a headshot if they're being hosed with bullets, it makes no sense. Everyone says "shotguns shouldn't be able to kill from that far!!" and this was when shot package and pre patch rangefinder existed, yet snipers can pull off a headshot even though they're being sprayed constantly? I call bs.
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I can/do use in the crucible but I'm much more partial to the shotgun due to the faster pace game play. Both tahr skill and I agree with you. Those who can't use it typically just wine and complain about it until it's useless so they don't have to go against something they can't utilize.
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Yep they each take there own type of skill. And as for you guys complaining about shotgun rushers there my fav type. I primary them then pull out my own shotgun killing them at a much greater range. If I am sniping that's what a grenade and primary is for if there being really aggressive then I change my sniper for a shot gun. Shotguns are good where they are, the only thing that needs to change in my opinion is the aim assist when being flinched. You shouldn't be able to hit me at med range pulsing your face of. Quick scopes drag scopes all that is fine there is a 1v1 counter so its ok. Shotguns there is a 1v1 counter so its ok. Even the shoulder charge you can back peddle primary and kill so its ok. What's not ok is doing every thing right in a fight and still losing (cutting angles, getting first shots, pushing them into the open so you have cover and they don't) and still getting killed. Any how that's just my 2 piece.
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2 답변You need to flinch way more when scoped in with a sniper, bodyshot damage needs to be reduced and aim assist should be nerfed for sure. Flinch would increase the danger that sniping lacks compared to shotguns. Bodyshot damage is just too high on medium and high impact snipers, allowing for easy clean up kills or just wrecking the pace of the game after an easy bodyshot. And aim assist needs to be nerfed so it's no longer a crutch, and before sniper fanboys start with the usual "aim assist does nothing scrub get good" then why do the best snipers build there snipers entirely around aim assist, aim assist scopes, base aim assist, aim assist perks. Everything. Why in pro-tournaments did people use shadow of viels EVEN THOUGH IT'S MISSING AN ENTIRE PERK and the only actual perk you get is trash just for it's aim assist.
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Snipers are low risk super high reward. Shotguns are high risk medium reward. Clearly, something needs to change. Shutting down a super is way easier with a sniper and way less risky, as opposed to a shotgun which is more dangerous and less effective. If you want to kill someone off a revive, sniper is the definite choice. It would be retarded to do it with a shotgun instead. In a normal scenario just trying to get kills or maybe clear a objective snipers are the best choice because they are just as deadly or more than shotguns and don't put you in anywhere near as much danger.
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3 답변Then there's me, using sidearms and wiping the floor with both shotgun and sniper users.
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i'm one of the so called shotgun scrubs... if you want you can check my stats my shotty is my primary, that being said though it does mean i can't go out of close range a lot and have to try and stay close to everyone even if they're backing off i need to get them or die in the proces if i want to go positive (i don't really care though). thing is though that most of those are from either HoW or a comedian... in HoW there was nearly no other option and i just like the comedian a lot, it's good for party crasher practise as it makes get REAL close for kills or gives me nothing at all. all in all depending on loadout shotgunning can be harder than sniping, you just have to make it that. *flufs away sleepily*
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1 답변They (Bungie) should've hired Simo Häyhä (while he was alive) as a consultant to help implement the snipers. He was the greatest sniper in the whole History of mankind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4
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Well said. The issue arises from Trials. As you say it's the preferred weapon for elimination. So the shotgun users are almost forced to change their style in order to see the lighthouse. They should balance them so the are both effective in elimination or introduce a 6v6 option for Trials. At least that's my opinion.
