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작성자: SG553Airborne
8/2/2016 8:47:22 PM
247
An experienced SNIPER'S opinion on Snipers VS. Shotguns discussion
(EDIT: Now that this is trending, id just like to say that the main purpose of this post is to address all of the hate and negativity between users of two very different special weapons with two very different playstyles. Thanks guys)
For a LONG time (mainly since shotguns were nerfed, "coincidentally*) there has been a growing community of anti-sniper vocalists in this community. While this group is annoying to me as a sniper, equally annoying is the group that sadly associates with me: the anti-shotgunners.
Over months of reading through this forum, it has frustrated me to no end see these two groups fight, and it seems to mirror something we see in the modern political sphere: Both sides believe that they are 100% right on 100% of the issues, and they tend to base their opinions often times not on their own personal experiences in life ( or in this case,the game) , but on the opinions of others in their group and very little actual game experience.
In my experience, those who hate on shotgunners are typically the ones who have tried picking up a shotgun, but had very limited success or became frustrated with the high risk of trades and death by primary weapons that come along with using a shotgun. These people see the potential of shotgunning, but cannot master it for themselves. I PERSONALLY find snipers much more suitable for this very reason, especially in 3v3 and elimination where deaths are much more costly to the success of your team. My point? Shotguns take skill, and a lot of it. It isnt the same TYPE of skill (i.e. precision and finesse with a controller) but snipers are definitely much more forgiving and that is why they are my first choice in any elimination game mode.
But wait, shotgunners- youre not off the hook. On the other side, there are the guys who have had the same experience but prefer the fast paced life of a shotgunner. They are percieved as mindless rushers (and some are) but in reality if you let a shotgunner get close enough to kill you before youve killed him with a primary, you deserve it. Its a special weapon. Anyway, I was saying- The group of shotgun fans who always talk shit about sniping are often the ones frustrated by the time it takes to learn decent target acquisition and precision. There is nothing wrong with that, but you CANNOT say that snipers do not take skill.
Please stop spreading this cancer through the community. Both weapon types take plenty of skill, and ill even say it: High impact snipers need body shot damage reduced GREATLY if we ever want a balanced crucible. It is simply too easy to bodyshot primary at the moment.
-SG553Airborne, a semi-pro sniper.
https://destinytrialsreport.com/ps/SG553Airborne
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9 답변작성자: SMELLtheGIove 8/3/2016 12:51:37 AMI have tons of sniper kills, it's by far my most used special and it helps me go highly positive almost always. I use a shotgun too, but when I'm sniping I know I am guaranteed a good amount of easy kills with it. That being said: In the interest of getting Bungie to improve this game, I am going to admit it - sniping is simply just way too easy in this game. I exploit the hell out of how easy they are to use, especially with a sniper that has a good roll (the game gives you a top-tier 1000 yard stare in the story, so everyone has at least one). The "flinch" mechanic is a non-factor because you only need 2 body shots to kill someone. Any time you engage me, I only have to shoot you twice, anywhere in the body. And my reticule is always on your body, no matter if you're hitting me with shots or not. It is extremely rare for me to lose to any pulse or scout when sniping, even though I am getting hit first sometimes. Keep in mind, this is just talking body shots. It is incredibly easy and incredibly forgiving to hit headshots before anyone can even hit you in the first place. It's really fun to get so many easy kills, but I would rather see the game fixed for the better. Some suggestions: - reduce the ridiculous aim assist - make body shots do less damage - increase the flinch when getting hit while scoped - increase the time between switching from a sniper to a primary - increase the weighted feel of snipers Any combination of several of these would be good. As it is now, it is just way too easy to snipe. I'm not complaining about snipers, but would like to see them tweaked for the overall benefit of the game.
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3 답변For those who "TL;DR" Sniper: It is my responsibility to ensure that the enemy has as few sight lines on me as possible. It is my responsibility to know how to position myself in such a way that gives me the greatest advantage and to re-position when the advantage is no longer in my favor (ie. Keeping the enemy either pinned and/or as far away from me as possible) Shotgun Warriors: It is my responsibility to know how to seize the initiative, to know when to challenge and when not to. It is my responsibility to make myself as hard a target to draw a bead on and get shots on as humanly possible as I close the gap on my quarry. It is my responsibility to know where the common sniper lanes are and how to navigate them in such a way so that I don't get domed while I charge forward to "pillage the nest".
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special weapons in general are in issue, when you can go into crucible of any kind and be killed exclusively by special weapons and supers should illustrate a problem. im aware that constant nerfs to pretty much everything have rendered primaries all but useless if you want fast paced killing fields in crucible. ( I also note my own hypocrisy at this point since im using side arms almost exclusively in crucible at the moment)
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Bottom line... when I see a sniper, I think "Hey, 1 less shotgunner I have to worry about when I shoulder charge." The problem with people is no one wants to adapt. We all have access to 9 subclasses. And if you insist on being a main on one class, then use one of your 3 subclasses to adapt. It's that easy.
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To be truthful the fact that you can say there are Snipers and Shotgunners proves there is an issue, these are special weapons, when Bungie decided to let players use them like primaries is when they both became broken .....that is where the issue lies.
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7 답변작성자: CatMan 8/4/2016 9:27:22 PMThere are always anti group: Hunters vs titans shoulder charge Hunters vs warlocks Hunters vs shotguns users Hunters vs TLW, universal remote, thorn, and water users But hooooo don't touch my sniper saids the hunters XD(not actual Hunter, I'm talking about kids)
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I find its a matter of playing to the map, all maps have opportunity for both shotguns and snipers, but, some are more lenient towards one or another. Say for example I'm playing bannerfall, I'll wip out my LDR or auto aim based God glass promontory, as the map has many long sniping lanes. Or if I'm on rusted lands I'll pull out some Shotgun or another and hold mid. It's a balancing act that guardians have forgotten.
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1 답변If K/D starts to drop just pick up the universal remote for a week and problem solved. Sorry but shotguns are so pathetically easy.
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Snipers take skill? What about all the 'MLGs' who buy that stupid device that allows you to plug in a mouse and keyboard and point and click? Several of the top snipers are guilty of this, and no surprise, it makes it SO easy. PC games have minimal aim assist for a reason
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8 답변Snipers should be de scoped when hit with Crits and wobble like hell when body shot, period.
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2 답변There's something wrong when I get 3 critical hits on a sniper only to get headshot every single time. It's seriously a problem.
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작성자: Sapid 8/4/2016 3:24:32 PMIt's not an issue of skill, you should always balance based on top tier, so it shouldn't matter that a weapon is hard to master. Body shots should be toned down, sure, but snipers become unstoppable once the user gets good with them. I enjoy watching some very talented snipers in the Destiny community and I've seen them defending balance issues before but there is always a disconnect, since they practiced so much with (in this case snipers) they can't help but have a bias and not want change. Especially since so many are talented because they roughed through the OG blink-shorty days. It's just not fun getting killed instantly. With shotguns, it's easy to counter because they have to approach you. A good sniper can completely shut down entire sections of the map. Currently mobility such as blink, shade step, and garrison counter this but it's still very annoying. Not to mention the Titan advantage with their ice skating. They can get to sniper line of sights in trials super fast. The truth is map control, locking down sight lines, and forcing the opponent to approach you gives you extreme advantages, and snipers are perfectly crafted for this. While primary weapons currently compliment themselves, they don't compliment specials. Their TTK is just too low. I would fix that first instead of changing snipers. And then I honestly believe special ammo should be nerfed only slightly more. I remember talented snipers complaining when ammo was nerfed that it would kill sniping, but that has not been the case at all. Because in the correct hands, each bullet in a sniper is almost a given kill.
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[quote] Both weapon types take plenty of skill, and ill even say it: High impact snipers need body shot damage reduced GREATLY if we ever want a balanced crucible. It is simply too easy to bodyshot primary at the moment. [/url][/quote] Hit the nail on the head. Truly, every weapon class requires its own skill, whereas some guns within said classes require a unique skill in themselves also. The one's griping about Last Word are the ones unable to use it. Same goes for anti-shotgunners and anti-snipers alike. I used to be one of the complainers when I initially joined Destiny and the community about a year ago. The Crucible is a rare breed that when played competitively, yes one must conform to succeed. Otherwise, one will gripe and moan about the broken-ness of it all. But that's just it. We all know its broken. You just join 'em if you can't beat 'em. Simple as that. If one can't successfully run their hipster class and gun build to shut down the meta, then one cannot bitch when it doesn't work. That's hypocritical and contradictory all in one. Good post, OP. Good post.
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작성자: Ninja_Lazer 8/3/2016 2:42:07 PMI think that the crucible is in a pretty good place right now in terms of special weapon balance. All special weapons have viable legendary and exotic (except for sidearm exotic) options. I think that a bigger issue is lag and connectivity. These can turn shotgunning opponents into teleporting nightmares and give snipers the ability to "shoot through walls". Another issue is the prevalence of special weapons being used as primary weapons. The ammo NERF worked towards fixing this, but it can still be problematic. Offering better primary weapons would likely address the issue. Also, if you are committed to sniping use NLB, same with UR for shotgunners. Personally, I prefer shotguns over snipers, as I tend to push aggressively and often find myself flanked. While both weapons take skill, I have always found it too easy to snipe in destiny (the lack of scope sway, minimal recoil and aim assist) and this makes the act of getting a kill less fun (as I feel that I have not earned it). Regardless, the fact is that the gun (while assisting you) does not aim itself. As with shotguns, the gap doesn't close itself, while the aim required for a shotgun is lower, the skill it takes to tactically close gaps and use cover and terrain effectively is higher. Then there is PvE. Personally, I hate the role snipers have in PvE. For all end game activities that require DPS, snipers are your only option. More or less 65% of the raid involves you huddling up with the fireteam and pumping shot after shot of your sniper into a boss. There is basically no role for shotguns, fusion rifles, or sidearms in the raid. This really needs to change in the future. How is it exactly that snipers became the DPS weapon? If anything, heavy should hold this role (swords seem to be the only thing that can do this, but you can't really use them against any bosses). Instead, heavy weapons have been relegated to crowd control...which is redundant, since all classes have supers that do the job more effectively. But I digress, look at the Golgoroth encounter for example, the encounter takes place in a relatively small enclosed space with a large enemy at the centre that you are pretty close to; in what world other than Destiny would you thinking to pull out a sniper in this context? Surely a shotgun or fusion rifle would make more sense. I just hope that the next raid offers better viability for special weapons. TL;DR Sniper/Shotgun balance is okay in PvP right now, but snipers in PvE are broken.
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I very much agree, but I definitely think it all depends on your playstyle. Personally I like to stay back and snipe, and not because I'm bad at shotgunning, just because I'm not one to rush into things. I have a friend that is very much fast paced and likes to rush people, but I have seen him pick a sniper up and use it efficiently. Both are just very different, and I don't hate on either way someone chooses to close the gap.
