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작성자: Slain 4/5/2016 2:14:35 AM
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Slain

Removing Elemental Primaries Exemplifies Bungie's Lazy Approach to Solving Problems

In any game, issues arise which call for some form of change. Destiny is no exception. Throughout Destiny's life cycle, weapon balance and investment systems have seen several forms, each the result of a very basic means of solving problems: taking the lazy way out. Weapons aren't balanced? Something is being used more than everything else? [b]Nerf it![/b] Sunbreaker titans seem really powerful in comparison to some weak-ass subclasses? [b]Nerf it![/b] Elemental primaries alter the way players choose which weapons to use? [b]Get rid of them![/b] Problem solved, right? Almost every time an issue such as these has arisen in Destiny, the Bungie solution has been to nerf it or remove it from the game. While some balance is achieved in the process, what is also achieved is a scorched earth policy. Everything fun or useful in the game has always been and always will be targeted. Over three big weapons patches, the level of balance in the game has only increased slightly, if at all. What the weapon patches serve to do more than "balance" the game is to pick what people like to use and destroy it. Sure, weapons are somewhat more equal after a patch, but they are "equally shitty", as Draken Wolfe says. Why can't we have weapons that are equally good, equally useful, and equally fun to use? We could, if Jon Weisnewski and the Wrecking Crew didn't make the following [b]completely unnecessary[/b] moves: -nerfing almost every year 1 perk -replacing most middle tree nodes with useless tradeoffs which hinder use of the weapon rather than boost it, as the word "perk" would suggest -nerfing auto rifles because an Iron Banner bounty forced people to use them "too much" -nerfing hand cannons as a result of the meta shift following the auto rifle nerf -nerfing pulse rifles as a result of the meta shift following the hand cannon nerf - *inevitably* nerfing scout rifles as the result of the meta shift following the pulse rifle nerf -nerfing fusions over and over and over and over and over again because some guy in the studio knows how to use them -introducing perks like exhumed, replenish, icarus, surrounded, underdog, guerrilla fighter, last resort, army of one, etc in order to make good perks rare as shit -nerfing Gjallarhorn because your shitty boss design made it effective -nerfing Ice Breaker because your shitty boss design made it effective -nerfing Black Hammer because your shitty boss design made it effective Every one of these could have have been avoided, had you exercised a little brain power once in a while. Do you know why weapons like Ice Breaker and Black Hammer were really good? Because bosses in Destiny just stand there and beg you to shoot them in the head. But instead of making the enemies less -blam!-ing stupid, you make the weapon useless. Way to go, sandbox team. The same principle applies to Luke Smith's ass-hatted decision to remove elemental primaries from the game. [quote]They had the distinct and undesirable property of limiting a broad weapon sandbox to a few weapons[/quote] This is true. Having elements on primaries not only incentivized playing endgame activities, but also set those weapons apart from others. Playing these activities gave you a form of advantage when burns were active. Without endgame weapons having any quality that vendor weapons don't have, how does removing this added bonus achieve anything good? It makes raid weapons essentially just infusion trash, especially when you give them garbage perks and heavily randomize their quality. [quote]I strongly prefer the breadth of arsenal weapons, the potential of finding a better Legendary then you have to being stuck because of a damage color[/quote] First of all, having a "damage color" doesn't make you stuck with a weapon for 2 reasons: 1 - damage elements in destiny serve such a trivial purpose that having arc vs. kinetic on a weapon makes almost no difference 2 - because of this, what constitutes a "better" legendary is not an element, but the weapon's perks. Having an element vs. kinetic on a weapon, again, makes almost no difference when you take into account which perks one weapon has over the other. And, if you're frequently finding vendor weapons with better perks, that's not a good thing; endgame weapons are supposed to be the best in the game. [b]And[/b], exactly how does removing the element from one weapon make the "potentially better legendary" better? Answer: it doesn't; it's a move to create the illusion of weapons being better and having more variety instead of making actual improvements. It's -blam!-ing lazy. Additionally, this problem is easily solved by making primary elements not exclusive to endgame gear. If you could infuse any legendary weapon with an element using a material reward from some high level activity, how does this not solve the problem more than complete removal of elemental primaries does? [quote]No Legendary weapons with damage colors has the property of making secondaries ad heavies more important because of their damage color[/quote] This is where Luke really lost me. If there is a quality of primary weapons that would make specials and heavies less important, it sure as hell isn't damage elements. This is for the same reasons as above. The damage element system in Destiny is almost pointless. The only purpose elements serve is to do some bonus damage to enemy shields. If you honestly think the slight bonus damage to enemy shields trivializes special and heavy weapons in the presence of an elemental primary, you should play Destiny. You should do it some time. The problem is not the potential of primary weapons to fulfill the role of specials and heavies,; the problem is stupidity of the damage element system. There you have it, Bungie taking the easy way out on an issue once again. Instead of turning eyes to the flawed element system, you remove the thing "causing the problem." The thing you removed was an incentive to earn endgame weapons, a thing that gave people reason to use some otherwise garbage weapons, a thing that didn't harm the use of special and heavy weapons as your delusions lead you to believe. You see primaries with damage elements as harmful, but rather the fault lies with the flawed system. Give elements more of a purpose in Destiny. Give every enemy an elemental weakness and resistance. Make primary weapons infusable with weak elements that don't have an effect on weaknesses and resistances, but still provide an advantage with burn modifiers, and still give the player more of an incentive to earn endgame gear. Because as of now, there is [b]absolutely -blam!-ing ZERO[/b] incentive to earn endgame weapons. If there is a balance issue, fix it. Don't just nerf or remove whatever your excel spreadsheets tell you is a problem, because it has led to a boring and lifeless game which was once far more fun, and had far more variety and incentive to play. I can't believe the guy who made the masterpieces that are Destiny's raids is the same guy who strode lengths to remove every bit of fun and reward from them.
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#feedback

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  • Well I can't say you don't have a point. The bullet sponge juggernaut bosses of year one did invalidate the use of many weapons, but the Ice Breaker and Gjallahorn patches were completely reasonable. Look at the first week of HoW's release, spamming Gjallahorn was so efficient during solar burn weeks because it allowed for fireteams to virtually ignore all of the bosses mechanics. And Ice Breaker stopped players from embracing what they are intended to be in Destiny, nearly unstoppable killing machines. As for elemental primaries, that was more of a touch to make the game harder in PvE activities. It turned the raid weapons into somewhat of a crutch, and butchered weapon diversity in the endgame. How often have you seen a player in year one not using a raid weapon or an exotic primary in a PvE activity? Well, you don't. I can't even exaggerate on how much I used Fatebringer (best gun in the game) in year one. From my first hard mode VoG all the way to TTK. The elemental damage on top of the explosive rounds butchered any shields, as well as having ridiculous crowd control potential. As well as Black Hammer making any boss a joke. So as far as it being a little lazy, i can sympathize with you, but in the end, it was justifiable.

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    • Hate to say it. Yeah. Elementals were flipping awesome.

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    • In Y1 if you were going to play PVE you were literally only really able to choose between the elemental primaries to use as your weapon, there did need to be something changed. I agree I wish they didn't remove them completely though. I would have liked to seen the ability to upgrade any kinetic weapon into an elemental weapon. I would have liked to see arc, void, and solar elemental upgrades drop, these could have been raid only drops, or could have been obtained by dismantling raid primaries.

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      1 답변
      • Basically if they took everything they have done in the last 7 months and just hit delete I would be happy

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      • i feel like eventually bungie will nerf everything to a point were if you're in the crucible all your weapons do 1 damage

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      • While I don't agree with your comments about nerfs (Some nerfs are necessary, the Sunbreakers in particular were just abusive) I agree that elemental primaries were very much fine the way they were.

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        2 답변
        • Bump

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        • Very Nice! Thank You

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        • Nailed it!

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        • It's a conspiracy the elemental primary made short work of enemy shields. By removing them you spend more time in game. Bungie new the player base was shrinking so you do the math.

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        • I hope Bungie sees this, especially Jon Wesneski

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        • I hope this is at a frequency the devs can hear at, because we all know Luke needs to put in his hearing aid first.

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        • Swag

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        • Perfectly said, thank you! Bungie should definitely listen.

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        • I used my Fatebringer in this past week's Nightfall...it had Arc Burn and it still did nearly 6000 damage for critical hits. It was still viable and competent for the Nightfall, but only because of the Arc Burn. You ask me what would I rather use for the Nightfall...Fatebringer or any 320 King's Fall Primary. Fatebringer all day long. You are correct KF Primary's = Infusion. There is nothing to note or special about them at all. VoC/Fatebringer/Timepiece/Epilouge = cool design and situational value. You keep them.

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          1 답변
          • 1
            In general I agree with you. There have been a few weapons that have been OP in PvP and needed to be fixed, but in general the weapons you listed are only really OP in PvE, so make new weapons that are just as powerful and give us a reason to play for them. As it is, Y2 endgame content isn't as compelling to play because I know in the end I will just get infusion fuel.

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          • VERY well written post, sir. Glad to see someone that isn't mindlessly complaining on the forums, but instead has some meat to their argument. Thank you. While your topic was on elemental primaries (which I agree with you 100% on), I feel greater attention NEEDS to be taken to their lazy-ass method of "balancing" items. Your list at the top was great, and your short rant about it was on point. They really do just nerf or remove anything that's overused. Something doesn't need to be overpowered in order for it to be nerfed. It just needs to stand out. Inevitably, firebolts will be nerfed soon not because they're overpowered, but because they stand out in the community's eyes. And with all the complaints about firebolts (which, by the way, nobody was complaining about for over a year after they were in the game), they simply have to do something because of all the attention. It's just a wrong principle to operate on. Anyways, my quick rant is over. Great post, did bump. Hope they see this.

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            • Thank you for this post man😃

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            • I might print this post out and frame it. Bravo! This is something most year 1 players feel, including myself.

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            • This is the best post I have every seen in this forum. Well done! I absolutely agree with everything you said.

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            • You are absolutely correct, having an element on a primary weapon does not make it significantly better than any other primary weapon without one. Weapons such as Abyss Defiant, Word of Crota and any Y1 Adept Trials Primary (very good, but not suited for PvE whatsoever) are testaments to this. The only thing that comes to mind is balancing for Swords in PvP, as a Primary Weapon with the correct element makes the block pretty much worthless, but Swords are rarely seen and it's not as if you won't get mowed down by something else just because you're using a Machine Gun or a Rocket Launcher.

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            • This post is pretty much perfect. Bravo.

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            • Could not agree more i find it funny how the nerf thing works. One or two scout rifles to powerful, or over used and destroyed people in the crucible, Instead of fixing said gun.... NERF THEM ALL! This game has nerfed and buffed so many guns that it forces players in both PvP and PvE to bottle neck into using the same dag gum guns or else your gonna get wrecked. There is no incentive to use other weapons or to experiment around any more and it makes for a dull game, I actually use guns not commonly used just to ve different and get my buns handed to me PvP wise, but it's fun when you kill someone with that one random never get's used gun. Bring back diversity to Destiny.. Also if you focused more on improving Destiny 1 there wouldn't be need for a Destiny 2.

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            • All aboard the bump train, Woo Woo!

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            • you know how one guy always has to post something negative on facebook posts? i'm fairly sure that's luke smith. i can't tell you how many of us feel just like the OP it seems so obvious

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            • yep - really lazy again, definitely lacking in creative solutions shields are not as big of a deal in y2 anyway so elemental primaries wouldn't be that much better now other than with nightfall burn modifier but those are so easy they are a joke so who cares... All the really great perks (like field scout) that made the y1 raid weapons so great got nerfed to crap or removed so even if we got them back with elements they would not be as good as we rememember with the HC nerfs Fatebringer isn't even close to as good as during Y1 even on low level stuff

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