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#feedback

작성자: Slain 4/5/2016 2:14:35 AM
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Slain

Removing Elemental Primaries Exemplifies Bungie's Lazy Approach to Solving Problems

In any game, issues arise which call for some form of change. Destiny is no exception. Throughout Destiny's life cycle, weapon balance and investment systems have seen several forms, each the result of a very basic means of solving problems: taking the lazy way out. Weapons aren't balanced? Something is being used more than everything else? [b]Nerf it![/b] Sunbreaker titans seem really powerful in comparison to some weak-ass subclasses? [b]Nerf it![/b] Elemental primaries alter the way players choose which weapons to use? [b]Get rid of them![/b] Problem solved, right? Almost every time an issue such as these has arisen in Destiny, the Bungie solution has been to nerf it or remove it from the game. While some balance is achieved in the process, what is also achieved is a scorched earth policy. Everything fun or useful in the game has always been and always will be targeted. Over three big weapons patches, the level of balance in the game has only increased slightly, if at all. What the weapon patches serve to do more than "balance" the game is to pick what people like to use and destroy it. Sure, weapons are somewhat more equal after a patch, but they are "equally shitty", as Draken Wolfe says. Why can't we have weapons that are equally good, equally useful, and equally fun to use? We could, if Jon Weisnewski and the Wrecking Crew didn't make the following [b]completely unnecessary[/b] moves: -nerfing almost every year 1 perk -replacing most middle tree nodes with useless tradeoffs which hinder use of the weapon rather than boost it, as the word "perk" would suggest -nerfing auto rifles because an Iron Banner bounty forced people to use them "too much" -nerfing hand cannons as a result of the meta shift following the auto rifle nerf -nerfing pulse rifles as a result of the meta shift following the hand cannon nerf - *inevitably* nerfing scout rifles as the result of the meta shift following the pulse rifle nerf -nerfing fusions over and over and over and over and over again because some guy in the studio knows how to use them -introducing perks like exhumed, replenish, icarus, surrounded, underdog, guerrilla fighter, last resort, army of one, etc in order to make good perks rare as shit -nerfing Gjallarhorn because your shitty boss design made it effective -nerfing Ice Breaker because your shitty boss design made it effective -nerfing Black Hammer because your shitty boss design made it effective Every one of these could have have been avoided, had you exercised a little brain power once in a while. Do you know why weapons like Ice Breaker and Black Hammer were really good? Because bosses in Destiny just stand there and beg you to shoot them in the head. But instead of making the enemies less -blam!-ing stupid, you make the weapon useless. Way to go, sandbox team. The same principle applies to Luke Smith's ass-hatted decision to remove elemental primaries from the game. [quote]They had the distinct and undesirable property of limiting a broad weapon sandbox to a few weapons[/quote] This is true. Having elements on primaries not only incentivized playing endgame activities, but also set those weapons apart from others. Playing these activities gave you a form of advantage when burns were active. Without endgame weapons having any quality that vendor weapons don't have, how does removing this added bonus achieve anything good? It makes raid weapons essentially just infusion trash, especially when you give them garbage perks and heavily randomize their quality. [quote]I strongly prefer the breadth of arsenal weapons, the potential of finding a better Legendary then you have to being stuck because of a damage color[/quote] First of all, having a "damage color" doesn't make you stuck with a weapon for 2 reasons: 1 - damage elements in destiny serve such a trivial purpose that having arc vs. kinetic on a weapon makes almost no difference 2 - because of this, what constitutes a "better" legendary is not an element, but the weapon's perks. Having an element vs. kinetic on a weapon, again, makes almost no difference when you take into account which perks one weapon has over the other. And, if you're frequently finding vendor weapons with better perks, that's not a good thing; endgame weapons are supposed to be the best in the game. [b]And[/b], exactly how does removing the element from one weapon make the "potentially better legendary" better? Answer: it doesn't; it's a move to create the illusion of weapons being better and having more variety instead of making actual improvements. It's -blam!-ing lazy. Additionally, this problem is easily solved by making primary elements not exclusive to endgame gear. If you could infuse any legendary weapon with an element using a material reward from some high level activity, how does this not solve the problem more than complete removal of elemental primaries does? [quote]No Legendary weapons with damage colors has the property of making secondaries ad heavies more important because of their damage color[/quote] This is where Luke really lost me. If there is a quality of primary weapons that would make specials and heavies less important, it sure as hell isn't damage elements. This is for the same reasons as above. The damage element system in Destiny is almost pointless. The only purpose elements serve is to do some bonus damage to enemy shields. If you honestly think the slight bonus damage to enemy shields trivializes special and heavy weapons in the presence of an elemental primary, you should play Destiny. You should do it some time. The problem is not the potential of primary weapons to fulfill the role of specials and heavies,; the problem is stupidity of the damage element system. There you have it, Bungie taking the easy way out on an issue once again. Instead of turning eyes to the flawed element system, you remove the thing "causing the problem." The thing you removed was an incentive to earn endgame weapons, a thing that gave people reason to use some otherwise garbage weapons, a thing that didn't harm the use of special and heavy weapons as your delusions lead you to believe. You see primaries with damage elements as harmful, but rather the fault lies with the flawed system. Give elements more of a purpose in Destiny. Give every enemy an elemental weakness and resistance. Make primary weapons infusable with weak elements that don't have an effect on weaknesses and resistances, but still provide an advantage with burn modifiers, and still give the player more of an incentive to earn endgame gear. Because as of now, there is [b]absolutely -blam!-ing ZERO[/b] incentive to earn endgame weapons. If there is a balance issue, fix it. Don't just nerf or remove whatever your excel spreadsheets tell you is a problem, because it has led to a boring and lifeless game which was once far more fun, and had far more variety and incentive to play. I can't believe the guy who made the masterpieces that are Destiny's raids is the same guy who strode lengths to remove every bit of fun and reward from them.
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#feedback

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  • necrobump

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  • If any of you (like myself) are actually upset with BUNGIE, E-Mail Activision or post in their forum because complaining to BUNGIE about BUNGIE will not work at all lol. If you REALLY want to start a fire under their butts and get them to actually do REAL WORK, tell the Boss (Activision) that they are slacking. BUNGIE does not care about the players/customers and Activision wont like their reputation tarnished by a team of devs who lack the skill to even separate changes to PVP from PVE, or reskin old content but make 'sterling chests' a priority. if so many do email them (activision), they may actually tell BUNGIE to step up their game or else.

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  • Hey Kabr. Can you make a post about the bladedancer blink strike bug please. Haven't seen Bungie addressed the situation and bladedancers are one shotting players of full health. Please respond.

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  • 1
    Bump

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  • Bump

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  • Almost 250 likes. Think they've gotten the point yet?

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    4 답변
    • 작성자: Ghost_Hawk_One 4/4/2016 12:10:04 AM
      "Datto: If I have a Year One Legendary weapon that is “returning" to Year Two, will I be able to Infuse the Year One version? Short Answer: No. Longer Answer: Bringing selected favorites from the Year One Legendary arsenal forward into Year Two isn’t like upgrading an Exotic Weapon in your collections kiosk. You’ll need to earn the Year Two versions of Legendary Weapons again, this time from the reward packages that are granted when you rank up with the Vanguard or Crucible Quartermasters." This is just absurd. these guys at BUNGIE just do NOT stop with the incompetence. we were told by Deej (or Cozmo) that we would always be able to bring our gear along and that it would not be made worthless. another lie... Vault space: will be increased. WHY? the only reason our vaults are full is because we have year 1 gear and weapons that we pray will be updated to current stats. lol. so they increase the space but leave our gear behind?? ok... Old raids: still pointless because the drops have old stats. the community has wrote and signed several petitions over the year to have the raids (or loot) updated to current stats but no..."heres a reskin of PoE so shut up" they dont have to write new code for this to be done. weapons can be tweaked at anytime just as fast as you can say "nerf". why are thay doing this to us? we spent hours and hours farming for that stuff just so we can do it again? Logic? Now with this update, legendaries will have to be grinded again...? meaning MORE content made useless. trolls. this is just a sad attempt to give us something to do...oh my, do these guys take the short bus to work? "New sparrows": why? if there is no reason to get a level 40 at 320 light to go on patrol then why add them now? its a bit late and i dont think anyone is going to be riding a sparrow around in PoE even if they could lol. <Fail. Reforge: i bought that expansion because reforge was advertised and they just took it away...wolves and chests no longer pop up and the old PoE gear was left behind...more things taken away. can i get a partial refund? i bought that content in its last week before it was taken away (ill remember that next time you sell a BUNGIE title...all year one players will) this is now a trend with these guys. Making us grind for the same old gear is insulting and very old now after leveling up the same lot of weapons for the 3rd (4th?) time...redundant. This game had so much potential and the "devs" lack creativity (reskins) and respect for the player and the several hours we put into getting that (now useless) gear. This will be my last topic post on this game because i have a brain...and refuse to grind for the same old crap and hang around waiting for an update that will make our gear relevant again...its not going to happen guys. If they really cared about their players, they would have done what we asked so many times before and make ALL gear (old and new) current stats without the need to re-grind it. But, they want the new players to see a populated game so they make us old players go out there and grind for the same old stuff AGAIN instead of giving us something fun to do...no thanks. get creative...not shady. They sure didn't mind putting time and work into those 'sterling chests' that you can buy for $$$ though...am i right? BUNGIE: don't just fix your game. fix your reputation. i like MANY others will never risk buying another one of your titles just to be strung along again with repetition and having things i farm just taken away or made useless. GET REAL!

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      26 답변
      • Thank you. I hope someone from Bungo reads this sometime.

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      • Bump

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      • Kabr speaks the truth. It they were concerned elemental primaries were providing a disincentive to use other weapons in the game, the answer was to give us a way to infuse ANY weapon with elemental primaries, not to remove them from the game. Y1 perks were awesome and so much better than Y2 perks because they were general perks and usually active almost all the time, and you could tell when bonus damage, etc. kicked in. Y2 Perks? They're so highly situational, they barely trigger, and when they do you don't notice the difference for the most part. It's like Bungie lost their balls and suddenly became afraid of making great weapons. It's not that the Y2 perks are so terrible in THEORY, but in practice they simply aren't strong enough to warrant taking them over something more useful. For example, why would you want Surrounded (bonus damage when 3 or more are close to you) when you could have LITC or Final Round? Those two perks will trigger FAR more often and don't require you to get yourself in a bad situation (where you are outnumbered in close quarters) to trigger it. And when Surrounded DOES trigger, the damage bonus isn't so great that it would help you get out of that situation, whether its PVP OR PVE. And don't even get me started on perks like Eye of the Storm (more accuracy when your almost dead? Are you kidding me?) and Exhumed (I'm going to assume this perk is just a troll). It is no wonder people still long for their Y1 guns. I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why we needed CRAPPIER guns to make this game "more fun" (its not) than it was in Y1. Our gear needs to get BETTER as the game progresses in order to naturally make our old gear obsolete. This is not what happened between Y1 and Y2. They made Y1 gear obsolete with the light level, NOT because Y2 stuff is inherently better. When you ignore light level completely, Y1 guns are MUCH more likely to have better perks and performance overall than Y2 guns. And this is why there is such outcry for the return of Y1 gear. Y2 gear is just aweful in comparison outside of light level.

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        9 답변
        • Everything Kabr said. Well done, sir!

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        • 작성자: Bajka 4/6/2016 8:04:31 AM
          Only VOG weapons were best . Looked great. Felt great when fired. Dark below, House of wolves and TTK has poop weapons. TTK weapons look like dead fish , I just use them to infuse my legendaries. I am not even sad if i dont have them. There is absolutely no reason to have those. They are no different then my regular weapons. Also a thread where Bungie wont reply. Lol

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          1 답변
          • It all comes down to one thing GRIND GRIND And more GRIND if you too strong , you won't grind as much

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          • Bungie- Bring back Elemental Primaries. Here's an idea... Make them all EXOTIC instead of Legendary. That's where you -blam!-ed up Bungo. You think I'd shelve my Ghorn, Icebreaker, P&T, or Thunderlord 90% of the time for a PRIMARY during Y1???. Or my Telesto, Sleeper, 4th Horseman, ect. In Y2??? GTFoH Bungoe!!! Weapon diversity problem solved, request for for Elemtal Primary fulfilled, everyone happy. You're welcome everyone.

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            3 답변
            • Amazing post. Bump. Their answer to everything is literally the laziest approach they can take w/o having to spend any money at all on the game's development. It's why this free update is literally 90% reskins of old content and gear and bringing back Year 1 stuff they swore over and over was gone from the game for good. It's hilarious when Bungie's first "free" update in almost 2 years only adds in basic cosmetic stuff that should have shipped at launch, reskins 90% of the Year 1 content and armor and people are salivating. Meanwhile F2P games with 1/10th the budget of Bungie put out massive free updates almost monthly/bi-monthly with quality content. Even F2P devs put some money from microtransactions back into their game while BungieVision just pockets it, then adds in more incentive to buy microtransactions/silver with this latest ploy dropping armor in the treasure boxes.

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            • Can't agree enough. I'm a scout rifle guy, and before Taken King came out I had a backpack full on my primary character; seven rifles I'd hunted down, and rerolled (when possible) until they were full auto/ firefly perfection. And yes, I would actually swap between them... a lot!... depending on the situation. Solar shielded enemies? Out came the Vision of Confluence. Fallen Captains? Fang of Ir Yut. Had a Void Wolves Leash II for nasty Vex as well. But do you know what I ran most 60% of the time? Zero Point LOTP. No, it didn't have elemental damage, but it had good perks, and hit like a Mack truck. Also kept a Shadow 701X handy for mob-intensive levels. So elemental weapons did NOT limit my sandbox of weapons to a few guns. My point is, at that time, Destiny gave me a whole toolbox of toys with which to kill things, and I wouldn't have parted with a one of them (still haven't; they're still in my vault, just in case). Now? Now I've got one rifle I kinda like... a Last Extremity w/ firefly... and two Treads Upon Stars for my alt characters I'm sorta "Meh... " about. I don't switch weapons anymore, because nothing is more effective, so why bother?

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              2 답변
              • Outstanding post. I haven't been in the raid since Christmas and the nightfalls are just as bad. I played every day for 13 months, but haven't signed into the game for six weeks. bungle is doing their level best to destroy the game. The faithful are still defending them, for some reason. It's going to be fun watching them doing the mental gymnastics when luke and the boys decide to sell them ghorn for $20.

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                1 답변
                • 작성자: Black Howling 4/5/2016 6:25:06 PM
                  Damn, Kabr. Does your level of boss have no limit? I know the VoG is a death trap but I'm with you.

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                • Good post. However make no mistake, cash will be thrown a plenty at TV's across North America.

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                  1 답변
                  • BUMP. Wonder what Cozmo is going to say when he comments on this one?

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                    5 답변
                    • The real problem is that elemental primaries weren't a problem.There are hundreds of damning problems with this game that need addressed and elemental primaries didn't even list. If we're complaining about a limited sandbox, how about we remove all exotics and raid weapons. Those who raid only care about exotics and raid guns. Those who don't raid only care about exotics. Luke's excuses are asinine at best. This game just goes to show that you can't buy your way into good game design.

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                    • It's just so obvious... They took the fun things out of the game. The removed the rewards from PVE which also removed any reason to play PVE.

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                    • Bump

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                    • Bump. Bring back elemental primaries. Bungie stop screwing with our weapons!!!!!

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                    • Bump. Bump and keep preaching PLEASE.

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                    • Gonna go ahead and......bump this

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