[quote]During my time over the years playing I've noticed a trend. Video games of old were completed games, games with very little issues/bugs, that were GROUND BREAKING and INNOVATIVE with many side missions to keep me busy for a long time. A good value for my money. Lately, I've noticed a trend that games are increasingly buggy with very little content which is extended (in bungies case replaced) with the purchase of the next dlc. Not to mention copy and paste jobs from previous games to make the "next franchise" which is, imo, a VERY lazy and shady way to make a "new game". As most people are aware by now the stories and theories of destiny being chopped up for dlcs, glitching into cut content, the 404 architect, the kotaku article, Joe Staten and Marty O'Donell leaving bungie, which interestingly enough resembles Infinity Wards creators West and Zampella leaving activision to create their own company...I digress. bungie has obviously made a beta game which they charged us anywhere from $60 to $100 for with so little content its not even worth mentioning. They have made a minimum viable product that neither is ground breaking or innovative. On top of that, they expect us to give feedback to help them make destiny into the game we expect!? Shouldn't that have been done already? Should I have to pay for a MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT to then help to design it!? Talk about putting the cart before the horse! The obvious bait and switch tactics from E3 of 2013 and 2014. The blatant lies about respecting players hard work and time spent in grinding over the last year. Voiding all the previous raids with ttk. The LOSS of content with tkk and previous dlcs. Never mind the obvious pay wall, planned obsolescence, Ponzi scheme and almost extortion like tactics used to squeeze more money from us gamers. But wait, making money is not unethical. It sure isn't!...it's THE WAY in which that money is made that is unethical... https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Z_LE7HXLlDo But wait...other games have done the same. Games like WoW, COD etc etc. But let me ask you this...if a thing is openly practiced or done, does that make it right!? Absolutely NOT! This is where I see and fear the unethical business practice will continue if we don't do something about it. So, then, what can we do about it? The answer is simple and something that all with a responsible and conscious mind can do. Two simple things... 1) STOP Preordering. The benefits of preordering DO NOT outweigh the negative side effects that come with it. By preordering we are saying to the game producers and publishers that we don't care what quality of game you make. Every time we preorder, we are fueling and justifying the unethical business practice imposed against US. PERIOD! We are sometimes our own worst enemies. I have preordered games before, but after destiny, I now understand the error of my actions. NO MORE! No more preordering will ensure and motivate the producers and publishers to make better games. 2) BOYCOTT Vote with your wallet! Every time we give more money to companies that use such unethical business practice, we shoot ourselves in the foot! Again, giving more money only justifies their behavior and only continues the fleecing of US, the gamers. IMO, a boycott is the ONLY thing that will MOTIVATE the producers and publishers to change for the better and make the games we ALL deserve! It's obvious they want our money and we want better games...fair trade right!? They don't get anymore money until our issues are resolved. Shouldn't the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS they've made from us ALREADY be enough!? I'm just saying... Bungie is not what they used to be without Joe Staten and the MANY designers that were there during the halo days. There is no trust because they(bungie) have demonstrated THEY can NOT be trusted time and time again. Bungie has shown that they, on MANY occasions, they either ignore A LOT of good ideas from many people like Malphisto, a whole bunch of others and even Lost Sols, whom have had outstanding ideas...or that they are either incompetent or just unable to implement those ideas. Innovative rather than planned obsolescence or extortion/ponzi scheme/pay wall tactics Right!? https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/157307267/0/0 But yet they can make purple balls glow at the tower, pointless emotes and patch loot caves and fix "issues" with posts going missing REAL quick, sometimes within the same day! But yet the BIG issues go unnoticed or not even acknowledged! Issues like dedicated servers and fixing obvious lag with pvp and even pve! Optional matchmaking...don't get me started...upgradeable year 1 gear. Vault space. The loot system. REMOVAL of content for non ttk/dlc buyers. Many more issues still. But I just listed the big ones. And through all of this, what has been bungies approach to the issues they have fixed? 1 step forward and 2 steps back. And I'm not talking about Paula Abduls song neither. For every fix they create more issues, like with the increase in vault space. It was nice and should have been implemented since launch...but was instantly nullified with all the gear they made obsolete with ttk. Then again what do they care when they have our money? Previous currencies nullified with the next dlc. What do they care when they have our money? An obvious beta game for $60 to $100 was sold to us but yet they talk of potential with ttk, when IT IS, WAY PAST, the potential part. Day 1 should have been the proof! But what do they care when they have our money? HoW was bought by many just before ttk. And now all of HoW, Crota and VOG is pointless. Almost all the exotics we have now...some of them just recently found...less powerful than any green or blue weapon in ttk! But what do they care, they have our money? We ask for optional matchmaking and their response? Remove some matchmaking! Cause they already have our money! bungie has shown to us that as long as we continue to give them money, they can make any changes they want regardless if we asked for it or not, why? Because we agreed to their terms when we gave them more money. So...it's fairly obvious that no matter how many great ideas are presented to bungie...no matter how many fixes are brought to their attention...they simply don't care because they know that a lot of people are going to throw money at the screen. They have shown their intentions through their actions and in most cases, inaction! The ONLY thing that WILL motivate bungie and activision or any other company that uses unethical business practice to change for the better and learn how to treat their customers is a BOYCOTT and REFUSING to preorder. I simply refuse to pay $100 for a beta game and then tell them how to make said game better. I refuse to pay them to do THEIR job! Why should we have to pay to help make a game that SHOULD have been made ALREADY? We didn't have to pay to help make Halo or Halo 2 did we? And why should we pay to only have the rug pulled from under our feet with every "update" or dlc? So...until bungie and activision learn how to treat their customers and fix the big issues with the game I will certainly not give them more money...I will instead... [b][i]BOYCOTT BUNGIE AND ACTIVISION[/i][/b] I welcome suggestions and comments from other responsible, conscious and concerned gamers. Edit: Here's a petition that I believe will help us gamers send a message to bungie and activision, so they learn their lesson and other producers and publishers can take note to not follow suit with more unethical business practice...which will improve games for ALL gamers. If you are a conscious, concerned and responsible gamer...take a look, it's a lengthy explanation and has some great ideas!! https://www.change.org/p/bungie-activision-bungie-activision-guardians-are-you-with-me-bungie-activision-enough-is-enough[/quote] K

[quote]During my time over the years playing I've noticed a trend. Video games of old were completed games, games with very little issues/bugs, that were GROUND BREAKING and INNOVATIVE with many side missions to keep me busy for a long time. A good value for my money. Lately, I've noticed a trend that games are increasingly buggy with very little content which is extended (in bungies case replaced) with the purchase of the next dlc. Not to mention copy and paste jobs from previous games to make the "next franchise" which is, imo, a VERY lazy and shady way to make a "new game". As most people are aware by now the stories and theories of destiny being chopped up for dlcs, glitching into cut content, the 404 architect, the kotaku article, Joe Staten and Marty O'Donell leaving bungie, which interestingly enough resembles Infinity Wards creators West and Zampella leaving activision to create their own company...I digress. bungie has obviously made a beta game which they charged us anywhere from $60 to $100 for with so little content its not even worth mentioning. They have made a minimum viable product that neither is ground breaking or innovative. On top of that, they expect us to give feedback to help them make destiny into the game we expect!? Shouldn't that have been done already? Should I have to pay for a MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT to then help to design it!? Talk about putting the cart before the horse! The obvious bait and switch tactics from E3 of 2013 and 2014. The blatant lies about respecting players hard work and time spent in grinding over the last year. Voiding all the previous raids with ttk. The LOSS of content with tkk and previous dlcs. Never mind the obvious pay wall, planned obsolescence, Ponzi scheme and almost extortion like tactics used to squeeze more money from us gamers. But wait, making money is not unethical. It sure isn't!...it's THE WAY in which that money is made that is unethical... https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Z_LE7HXLlDo But wait...other games have done the same. Games like WoW, COD etc etc. But let me ask you this...if a thing is openly practiced or done, does that make it right!? Absolutely NOT! This is where I see and fear the unethical business practice will continue if we don't do something about it. So, then, what can we do about it? The answer is simple and something that all with a responsible and conscious mind can do. Two simple things... 1) STOP Preordering. The benefits of preordering DO NOT outweigh the negative side effects that come with it. By preordering we are saying to the game producers and publishers that we don't care what quality of game you make. Every time we preorder, we are fueling and justifying the unethical business practice imposed against US. PERIOD! We are sometimes our own worst enemies. I have preordered games before, but after destiny, I now understand the error of my actions. NO MORE! No more preordering will ensure and motivate the producers and publishers to make better games. 2) BOYCOTT Vote with your wallet! Every time we give more money to companies that use such unethical business practice, we shoot ourselves in the foot! Again, giving more money only justifies their behavior and only continues the fleecing of US, the gamers. IMO, a boycott is the ONLY thing that will MOTIVATE the producers and publishers to change for the better and make the games we ALL deserve! It's obvious they want our money and we want better games...fair trade right!? They don't get anymore money until our issues are resolved. Shouldn't the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS they've made from us ALREADY be enough!? I'm just saying... Bungie is not what they used to be without Joe Staten and the MANY designers that were there during the halo days. There is no trust because they(bungie) have demonstrated THEY can NOT be trusted time and time again. Bungie has shown that they, on MANY occasions, they either ignore A LOT of good ideas from many people like Malphisto, a whole bunch of others and even Lost Sols, whom have had outstanding ideas...or that they are either incompetent or just unable to implement those ideas. Innovative rather than planned obsolescence or extortion/ponzi scheme/pay wall tactics Right!? https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/157307267/0/0 But yet they can make purple balls glow at the tower, pointless emotes and patch loot caves and fix "issues" with posts going missing REAL quick, sometimes within the same day! But yet the BIG issues go unnoticed or not even acknowledged! Issues like dedicated servers and fixing obvious lag with pvp and even pve! Optional matchmaking...don't get me started...upgradeable year 1 gear. Vault space. The loot system. REMOVAL of content for non ttk/dlc buyers. Many more issues still. But I just listed the big ones. And through all of this, what has been bungies approach to the issues they have fixed? 1 step forward and 2 steps back. And I'm not talking about Paula Abduls song neither. For every fix they create more issues, like with the increase in vault space. It was nice and should have been implemented since launch...but was instantly nullified with all the gear they made obsolete with ttk. Then again what do they care when they have our money? Previous currencies nullified with the next dlc. What do they care when they have our money? An obvious beta game for $60 to $100 was sold to us but yet they talk of potential with ttk, when IT IS, WAY PAST, the potential part. Day 1 should have been the proof! But what do they care when they have our money? HoW was bought by many just before ttk. And now all of HoW, Crota and VOG is pointless. Almost all the exotics we have now...some of them just recently found...less powerful than any green or blue weapon in ttk! But what do they care, they have our money? We ask for optional matchmaking and their response? Remove some matchmaking! Cause they already have our money! bungie has shown to us that as long as we continue to give them money, they can make any changes they want regardless if we asked for it or not, why? Because we agreed to their terms when we gave them more money. So...it's fairly obvious that no matter how many great ideas are presented to bungie...no matter how many fixes are brought to their attention...they simply don't care because they know that a lot of people are going to throw money at the screen. They have shown their intentions through their actions and in most cases, inaction! The ONLY thing that WILL motivate bungie and activision or any other company that uses unethical business practice to change for the better and learn how to treat their customers is a BOYCOTT and REFUSING to preorder. I simply refuse to pay $100 for a beta game and then tell them how to make said game better. I refuse to pay them to do THEIR job! Why should we have to pay to help make a game that SHOULD have been made ALREADY? We didn't have to pay to help make Halo or Halo 2 did we? And why should we pay to only have the rug pulled from under our feet with every "update" or dlc? So...until bungie and activision learn how to treat their customers and fix the big issues with the game I will certainly not give them more money...I will instead... [b][i]BOYCOTT BUNGIE AND ACTIVISION[/i][/b] I welcome suggestions and comments from other responsible, conscious and concerned gamers. Edit: Here's a petition that I believe will help us gamers send a message to bungie and activision, so they learn their lesson and other producers and publishers can take note to not follow suit with more unethical business practice...which will improve games for ALL gamers. If you are a conscious, concerned and responsible gamer...take a look, it's a lengthy explanation and has some great ideas!! https://www.change.org/p/bungie-activision-bungie-activision-guardians-are-you-with-me-bungie-activision-enough-is-enough[/quote] Wow that was great completely agree with everything your saying

Thanks. I'd suggest taking a look at the petition. There are some good ideas presented. Not all are good ideas like buying another disc and then breaking it to send into bungie. I'd suggest breaking your destiny disc you have already and sending a piece to bungie and a piece to youtubers like angry joe or your local news station with a letter explaning why you did what you did. But only if you want to. Something all of us can do is simple and easy...not preorder anymore and boycott. It's simple and doesn't cost money. Feel free to pass these ideas along.