I like the approach you take to discussing the strategy in your actual post, but calling it garbage in your title is a negative comment & the first thing you say is you are trying to avoid that in this post. Calling something garbage just because you disagree with it is immature with regards to a proper discussion. At first glance it sends the message that you are another person that struggles to complete it, but tries to hide that by saying its a bad strategy. Just had to say that before my actual reply to each of your reasons. 1. As someone that has done all 3 positions on hard & a guy that can comfortably be runner with all 3 classes, I have to agree that the animation for taking the immortality is brutal sometimes. I've actually been hoping to take on ogre aggro lately though because I've grown accustomed to finding the spots where I can hide from the ogres attacks while stealing the brand from the vessel. If the relic ends in the front, I hide behind the 2 spikes in the front, if its in the back I jump from the daughter pillars and make my way to the next spikes. 2. I have been that hunter more times than I can count. I've done it so much I've adapted to throwing an invisible grenade when I fail & hiding behind the pillar until the rest of my team staggers oryx. That said, I'd say its more that hunters need triple jump as the base jump them adding increased height/control/etc. If I had a year 2 version of Bones of Eao there is literally no other exotic I would use. Hell I still use the year 1 version for the ships & dicks of doom puzzles. 3. Timing with Ogres is still sketchy at times because of a guy that jumps to there's without thinking about the others, this goes for both strategies. There was commonly a guy in normal mode groups that would die because he was furthest from the bomb and he had a delayed reaction to leaving for their bomb. With the no Knight strategy though, some dumbass will commonly hop into his super close bomb before the others even have a chance to leave the pillar. I think it just comes down to the group, but I'd have to concur and say its the most flawed part of the strategy. 4. This is where I disagree though. When someone explains it as "just a red knight" of course it sounds easy & for the first 2 knights it usually is a simple 2 shot snipe. The thing is its not only a red knight, its also scolytes & centurions spawn with these red knights, and by the 3rd Knight sniping the knights becomes a challenge for survival due to acolyte eyes & axion darts. The strength of the strategy doesn't just involve removing the knights that detonate the bombs from the equation, it also removes 320 light adds that are equally as deadly as ogres. Now with the initial flaws, I've adapted to get past them, but that doesn't deny there are still flaws to the strategy. That said though, I get my 3 hard mode raid completions done on Tuesday reset using no knight strategy. I also usually play with people from LFG, and for the most part random players can't be trusted all the time with regards to cooperation, especially in the raids where it is most crucial. It never gets done instantly, usually takes multiple attempts to adapt to the group & for everyone to understand their role. But I've recovered with 4 living players finishing off Oryx, and have felt comfortable with 5 players going through it. With LFG as my main form of raid matchmaking, no knight strategy is what has been working for me, but to each their own as they say.

Less work to attain same goal is a bad strategy?? Lmao. No Knights ftw. I can make a sandwich and eat it while ur doing ad control and killing Knights

Exactly. That Strat is so unreliable. It's for people who can't kill a red bar knight.

If you're 313+ and still do the No Knight Strategy, then you're a scrub. You're a scrub for even doing it. LMFAO.

If you get killed as a relic runner then you're a scrub. OP can't make it to daughters platform as a hunter so he's a scrub. Scrubs. Scrubs. Scrubbies. Scrublord. Scrubgod. Scrubaroonie. Scrubbly Scruboop. Scrubchicken. Scrubtits.

If you can't do the no knight strategy you suck. It's the easiest and safest way to do it. People on platforms can sit down, don't even touch an orge and jump up into a bubble when the runner has the spark, detonate a bomb and repeat.

top overall disagreement is going to be that all these points are directly related to poor skills. good player don't have these issues and are easily able to execute this strat. 1. a good runner knows how to make the jumps in seconds and is able to follow the same path every time and can jump from the platform to the sisters plat all in one smooth flowing motion. my friend that runs is so fast he can get the relic before the 3rd ogre spawns. his path is to drop down on the lower platform and always moves behind the two blue triangles on either side, why?? ogres never go that far until all players at at the top. he then jumps on the closest platform and jumps directly up to the team. 2. addressed the runner points already. as for why its better. the ogres move back wards to the arenas edge. when killing them player are able to jump and land within feet of the bomb all in the same motion. this allows for quick syncing of all players and return to the bubble. you also get overlap which is even better cause If someone is late to the bomb we still get a max of 5 bombs in one run. 3.i have yet to see a scramble issue doing this strat they always end up with even the smallest overlap. 4. i don't think the issue is being able to kill them in a sniper 2 shot. its the fact that again skill is poor and therefore player are not able to handle the additional ads and they get overwhelmed and miss killing the knight. good team coordination solves this issue. paying attention to what happening and truly knowing the fight is what builds skill. know how enemies move and how to handle everything. know how to help team members kill knights. if ur a dead eye with the sniper move to any point anf double team knights.

If your relic runner dies from ogres he is bad and one of those players that just expects nothing to attack him. Hide behind the pillar where oryx first spawns and wait for the knight to spawn. Problem solved. Or... If he is to slow and cant grab the relic fast enough( which is crucial to this strat) then just jump OVER the ogres from the relic platform/daughters.

If you can't make that jump you should not be in that fight to begin with.

You and you're team are clearly garbage if you can't do this strat

HM relic runner here. I very rarely die to ogres. Also you have to kill the vessel which is a yellow bar enemy.