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작성자: PillowPaladin
10/25/2015 2:27:55 AM
292
Sunbreaker Sub-Class Does Not Need A Rebalance Whatsoever
Hello, fellow Guardian.
Allow me to start with a statement:
[b]The Sunbreaker sub-class is entirely fair in respect to all other sub-classes and should NOT be rebalanced/nerfed/scrapped.[/b]
Hunters and Warlocks, prepare your torches and pitchforks...
I find the most efficient and effective method for resolving this issue is by individually addressing each comment and concern about Sunbreaker I have witnessed on this fine forum.
[quote]The Sunbreaker's armor is too strong! It needs to be nerfed severely because it's just not fair![/quote]
This is a very common complaint I see about Sunbreakers. However, I want to swiftly end an all-too-common misconception about Sunbreaker's "armor" -- there is no armor! That is, there is no [i]additional[/i] armor that the Sunbreaker Titan possesses when using his/her super. The only "armor" a Sunbreaker receives is the same damage resistance the Bladedancer and Sunsinger sub-class receives when a super is initially activated.
But wait, what makes Sunbreakers seem more invincible compared to Bladedancers and Sunsingers?
Two things:
1) Titan's have an increased Armor stat in general which becomes especially evident when a super is active (see Striker sub-class). This increased Armor stat is counter-balanced by Titans having lower Recovery and Agility compared to that of Hunters and Warlocks. Titans are designed to emphasize Armor, Warlocks are designed to emphasize Recovery and Hunters are designed to emphasize Agility. Hmm, sounds almost, [i]fair[/i], dare I say?
2) Most Sunbreakers use the "Cauterize" ability which triggers regeneration upon each Hammer kill (not to mention grenades, melee) which makes it seem as if their health never runs low. This is [b][i]identical[/i][/b] to the Hungering Blade ability that Bladedancers possess. Here are the two abilities' official descriptions for your convenience:
Cauterize: Enemies brought down by your fire regenerate your health.
Hungering Blade: Kills with Arc Blade and Blink Strike immediately regenerate health.
So why are people so upset with Sunbreakers sub-class, yet so accepting of the Bladedancer sub-class? I will address this near the conclusion of my post.
[quote]Titans have heat-seaking hammers! That requires no skill whatsoever - blatantly unfair.[/quote]
Well, they are actually not as heat-seeking as one might think. The Flameseeker ability only slightly alters its flight path to hit enemy targets. A blatant miss by the Titan will not automatically correct the hammer to turn 180° and "heat-seek" an enemy. Remember, Titans are actually giving up the entirety of abilities Explosive Pyre and Fleetfire for the small assistance to accuracy.
Ultimately, if you get killed by a Hammer, you only have yourself to blame for not running away. Or, more likely, the Titan simply made an athletic throw. That's not unfair; that's just a good play.
[quote]I can't kill Titans with my weapons even though a few of my teammates are firing as well![/quote]
Again, Titan's are designed to have that increased Armor stat we talked about earlier. That being said, in what world does a Super lose to primary, or even secondary, weapon fire? It's a Super! What do you expect? Remember, the Cauterize effect as well, if you "feed" the Titan's super by allowing him/her to get kills he regains his health!
So instead of taking the foolish strategy of charging a tank head-on, try running away instead? Put that Agility and Recovery to good use. You wouldn't charge a Bladedancer and expect to come out on top more that 10% of the time...
Again, It's important to remember that Supers trump casual weapon fire. It's common sense.
[quote]Titan's throw too many hammers![/quote]
Titans give up the powerful Suncharge and Scorched Earth perks when selecting Forgemaster effectively nerfing their own lethality in order to throw a few more hammers. Nothing unfair to report here, this simply compensates for the lack of other powerful abilities a Sunbreaker could potentially possess. We see this constantly with numerous sub-classes.
[quote]Sunbreakers are ruining the once beautiful Crucible.[/quote]
You're almost completely correct. I think this what you meant to say:
Sunbreakers are ruining the once [b]corrupt[/b] Crucible.
Sunbreakers are obliterating the unfair monopoly Warlocks and Hunters once held over the Crucible grounds. Hunters and Warlocks have enjoyed PVP [u]domination[/u] throughout all of Year 1 due to their PVP tailored Supers. Titans, on the other hand, had one decent sub-class for PVP (Striker) and one pathetic PVP sub-class (Defender).
Hunters and Warlocks are simply upset that they no longer can abuse the powerless Titan.
Bungie recognized the imbalance in PVP and addressed the issue perfectly in the creation of the Sunbreaker.
Now, all guardians stand equal.
And like the Phoenix, Sunbreakers arise from their Nova-Bombed, Gun-Slung, Sun-Sung, Blade-Danced ashes and torch any discrimination towards their fellow Titans.
[quote]Well, err... umm... everyone else agrees with me that Sunbreakers are OP![/quote]
Here is where I interject my opinion:
I believe that due to the majority of Destiny players playing as Hunters and Warlocks, there is a significantly massive bias towards the much smaller Titan population.
So of course there are more people crying for a Sunbreaker nerf compared to those who oppose a nerf. The numbers clearly indicate that most Guardians are Hunters and Warlocks that can't easily dominate the Crucible anymore.
The Hunter/Warlock population is frustrated so they all throw a tantrum.
Due to sheer volume of Hunters/Warlocks, that obnoxious tantrum has grown into a foolish uproar.
Now [i]that[/i] is unfair.
End.
I encourage and invite anyone who disagrees with my rhetoric to address me in the comments.
Thank you!
Also, I'd like to thank Bungie for their hard work in rebalancing the Crucible by creating Sunbreakers.
Without you, Titans would have forever faded further in the Crucible.
Which Guardians think HoS should be nerfed? Find out at this poll:
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/165463843/0/0
[b][u]Additional points generated by this beautiful community[/u][/b]
[quote]Avly485: HoS is inferior to GG because HoS is like a fusion rifle with travel time. The aoe explosions offset the fact that it isn't hit scan like GG.[/quote]
[quote]ssolidus007: I main a Void Hunter and could not agree wth you more. If I die at the hands of a hammer it's my own damn fault. Nothing more satisfying than hearing the anvil pop and just wrecking him in the chest with my void bow. Plus it's just fun running away, it's like cat and mouse or intergalactic David vs Goliath.[/quote]
[quote]Xenith: It's not that they have extra armor. They have damage reduction of 55%, the same as a Sun Singer with Radiant Skin active.[/quote]
[quote]Wagsman1: The reality of Crucible is what this guy said. Hunters and Warlocks have ruled because of their superior abilities. Titans now have a Super that is on par with the other two classes. It's only an issue because now Hunters and Warlocks are getting a taste of their own medicine.[/quote]
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3 답변Hits like golden gun/range of golden gun, regen of blade dancer, AoE of Nova Bomb, armor like sunsinger. Doesn't need to be fixed? Hahahaha alright buddy
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You noted that "titans are made to emphasize armor" so tell me how does this make sense when the regen abilities they have are made so they regenerate more health than one can take above the armor they already have and the 1 shot kills they do. So again tell me how is it that they do not require a rebalance?
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13 답변•you can't one shot them with primary or special •no limit to hammers you can throw(ends when super runs out) •trigger regen from across the map •hammers explode because it's not op enough •increased agility totally balanced man
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Ok, you're answering point by point, so I'm going to do the same: FIRST. You're righ, there's no ability that makes the Titan's armor stronger while he's a Sunbreaker, but the armor stat in general with the Cauterize perk and the fact that if a Sunbreaker on super sees you you're as good as dead without the time to try to kill him makes the class OP. Why? I use all three classes because I find it fun, and I've never saw a Guardian on Super survive a direct Nova Bomb or Golden Gun shot before Sunbreaker arrived, they can even survive a Rocket Launcher shot to their chest. You compare Sunbreaker to Bladedancer, you couldn't be more wrong there because Bladedancer forces you to get close to your target (even when you can slash to approach faster, but tgat consumes super energy)and you can get killed by a super or a good shotgun shot, and with Sunbreaker you can attack from afar, do area damage and one shot any guardian, or throw the equivalent to five Nova Bombs (and yes, Nova Bomb can split in three, but it's still one shot and you got to make it count). SECOND. NO, Hammer throws as they are are not "good play". I've played with my Titan as a Sunbreaker, and it's fun because other Guardians cannot escape your throws. Damn, If I've missed three hammers in all the times I've played as a Titan it's a lot, so where's the skill needed for that, even when you're familiarizing with the class you're deadly as hell. THIRD. How are you supposed to kill a Titan that trows little bombs that regenerate his/her health with every kill, and when every shot he does it's a kill? I've killed Sunbreakers on super, but I have to accept, it's has been mere luck, luck that he didn't see me before he was dead. If any of the Titans that I've killed would have turn around before they were dead, they would have one shot me and regained their full health. And to answer your cuestion, in Destiny. In Destiny's world you can kill a Guardian on a Super with primary or secondary fire, but Sunbreaker survives primary, secondary, heavy fire and even a Super shot at them, that's not fair at all and leaves out common sense. FOURTH. Even if they give up Forgemaster, a Sunbreaker can throw easily five hammers in one super that one shot any Guardian, explode and do area damage or create a sunspot that deals a lot of area damage. Let's compare it to the other classes that throw things: First lets take on the Hunter and his Golden Gun, it's a three shot Super (can be four if you have the helemt for it) that runs out pretty fast if you don use it and it's a gun shot, like a hand cannon that can't kill or damage multiple targets on one shot unless you have Keyhole equipped and you're extremely skilled or extremely lucky, but you can easily run away from a Gunslinger, just don't get in a straight line from where he is. Now, the Warlock and his Nova Bomb, they have only one powerful shot, that they can split in three, but it still counts as one shot. Sunbreakers with Scorched Earth can throw five nova bombs. FIFHT. Yes, Sunbreaker are ruinning the Crucible, if you don't believe me try to play a match of clash or control against a team that has 4 Sunbreakers in it. You can play against a team of Hunters or Warlocks, but in these days it's very rare that you find a Titan that's not a Sunbreaker in the Crucible, so a match against a team with at least 4 or more Sunbreakers (and it has heppened to me at least four times) it's the most frustrating thign you can find in Destiny nowadays. So as a player that uses almost equaly the 3 classes I can say that while Sunbreaker is fun to play with, he is absolutely OP. And to prove it you only have to look the Meta in the Crucible (works with every online game that has PvP). With Hunters you'll find almost the same amount of Gunslingers, Bladedancers and Nightstalkers, the same with the Warlocks, in fact Iv'e seen less Stormcallers that Voidwalkers. But with Titans, almos every Titan you'll find is a Sunbreaker, and saying that it's because the other abilities sucked it's nonesense, the Fist of Havoc is a pretty devastating Super that can stop any other Super in the game (except Hammer of Sol because you have to get close). And actually the only change that I would make to the Hammer of Sol, it's its duration, I actually woul make it last less than the Golden Gun or the Stormtrance, just becasue its destructive power.
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3 답변
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You are wrong across the board. The SB takes too many shots to kill compared to other guardians during their super. Far too tough compared to other supers. They toss too many hammers and the AOE is too large. Far too much damage potential compared to other supers. It has more than twice the shots as gunslinger, with more DR and armor than a warlock during radiance!!! Absurd to claim they are on level grounds in regards to defense and offense. Not to mention a homing 1-shot grenade that requires little to no skill to use in a very effective way. More bs. Strongest grenades and strongest super.
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9 답변My golden cannot one shot a Titan in super, but I can be one hit by nova bombs and hammers even with max armor and get insta killed. Same goes for warlocks.... Hell I've seen sunsingers get 1 shot by a shotgun to the face unless they have the ram and radiant skin on. You know a super is op when you get less than three kills and consider it a poor run lol. The locks use storm trance but it doesn't one hit like a hammer, hell put a stormtrance warlock against a hammer Titan and that Titan will win every time. Titan recovery/armor needs a nerf.... The hammer amount doesn't bother me, it's when you can run around and get kills constantly regening. I've killed sunbreakers before and it's not easy, either three shot gun rounds or two golden guns before they fall. I don't know about you but that takes more than any class super to take down
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5 답변This is propaganda being pushed by Titans only. Your super needs a nerf. Your super alone has every perk in the game. TRACKING BURNING HEALING AOE OVER SHIELDS 7 full across map ranged hammers with no cool down and Momentum making you the fastest character. You are lying to these people and yourself.
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4 답변작성자: Urks 10/25/2015 2:37:08 AMDisagreed, while you had some decent arguments, none of them we're 100% correct. [quote]Titans are specked for Armor while Hunters and Warlocks are specked for Agility and Recovery[/quote] While this is true, Titans can skate, making them the fastest class in the game, making that point irrelevant. And a Titan's main system of recovery will be from getting kills, which regenerates your super even faster than a Warlock's health with max recovery, making that point irrelevant. SO, while Titans are in HoS, they have: Most health of any class, better speed than any class and better recovery than every other class. Just pointing some things out. (Will edit soon) Ok, your argument on how they have to "give up a perk for" this or that... The perks you are speaking of are the only viable options, hence, "giving up a perk" means nothing. And your point on how "Titans and Hunters used to rule the Crucible" is 100% irrelevant, that's [b][i][u]over[/u][/i][/b]. We're not in year 1 anymore, and not to mention Sunbreaker makes Bladedancer, Voidwalker and any other once OP class look terrible; because of how much better it is. Therefore, this argument was just a waste of your time to write out. Edit: I'm sure you could care less about how dumb I just made you look, so you probably won't reply, but please at least take the time to think about what I said. And maybe [quote]get smarter.[/quote]
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1 답변
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1 답변
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1 답변작성자: Ske1tl-l 10/24/2015 3:56:20 PM
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3 답변Ultimate Bump Agree 100% well said. Sunbreakers don't need to be nerfed! If people complain so much, then just buff the other classes so everyone can be happy! Titans keep their NOT OP class, and everyone else has stronger classes so they can will feel ok with Supers THAT ARE SUPPOSE TO BE POWERFUl!!! Problem solved, Bungie! Everyone's ok! Plus: nerfing a class and SUPER, really, Bungie?! You even said in the info trailer pre-release of the TTK that when you see a Sunbreaker you are going to want to run away! Keep it that way, Bungie! Titans were the worst in PVP in year one, they finally have a FAIR chance against every other class in PVP!!! [b][u]DON'T. NERF. SUNBREAKERS!!!!!!!!![/u][/b] Edit: Also, stop comparing Sunbreakers to Gunslingers! They are completely different classes! Anyone who says that is practically saying that they want every single class to be exactly the same! Ever class is suppose to be different, have some variety in your life, please.
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7 답변The only issue i have with hammer of sol is that not only do hammers track and explode but on a kill health regens... blade dancers have to be up close to get a kill with a tracking hammer u don't. ...
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Hello, fellow Guardian. Allow me to start with a statement: [b]The Sunbreaker sub-class is entirely fair in respect to all other sub-classes and should NOT be rebalanced/nerfed/scrapped.[/b] Hunters and Warlocks, prepare your torches and pitchforks... I find the most efficient and effective method for resolving this issue is by individually addressing each comment and concern about Sunbreaker I have witnessed on this fine forum. [quote]The Sunbreaker's armor is too strong! It needs to be nerfed severely because it's just not fair![/quote] This is a very common complaint I see about Sunbreakers. However, I want to swiftly end an all-too-common misconception about Sunbreaker's "armor" -- there is no armor! That is, there is no [i]additional[/i] armor that the Sunbreaker Titan possesses when using his/her super. The only "armor" a Sunbreaker receives is the same damage resistance the Bladedancer and Sunsinger sub-class receives when a super is initially activated. But wait, what makes Sunbreakers seem more invincible compared to Bladedancers and Sunsingers? Two things: 1) Titan's have an increased Armor stat in general which becomes especially evident when a super is active (see Striker sub-class). This increased Armor stat is counter-balanced by Titans having lower Recovery and Agility compared to that of Hunters and Warlocks. Titans are designed to emphasize Armor, Warlocks are designed to emphasize Recovery and Hunters are designed to emphasize Agility. Hmm, sounds almost, [i]fair[/i], dare I say? 2) Most Sunbreakers use the "Cauterize" ability which triggers regeneration upon each Hammer kill (not to mention grenades, melee) which makes it seem as if their health never runs low. This is [b][i]identical[/i][/b] to the Hungering Blade ability that Bladedancers possess. Here are the two abilities' official descriptions for your convenience: Cauterize: Enemies brought down by your fire regenerate your health. Hungering Blade: Kills with Arc Blade and Blink Strike immediately regenerate health. So why are people so upset with Sunbreakers sub-class, yet so accepting of the Bladedancer sub-class? I will address this near the conclusion of my post. [quote]Titans have heat-seaking hammers! That requires no skill whatsoever - blatantly unfair.[/quote] Well, they are actually not as heat-seeking as one might think. The Flameseeker ability only slightly alters its flight path to hit enemy targets. A blatant miss by the Titan will not automatically correct the hammer to turn 180° and "heat-seek" an enemy. Remember, Titans are actually giving up the entirety of abilities Explosive Pyre and Fleetfire for the small assistance to accuracy. Ultimately, if you get killed by a Hammer, you only have yourself to blame for not running away. Or, more likely, the Titan simply made an athletic throw. That's not unfair, that's just a good play. [quote]I can't kill Titans with my weapons even though 2 of my teammates are firing as well![/quote] Again, Titan's are designed to have that increased Armor stat we talked about earlier. That being said, in what world does a Super lose to primary, or even secondary, weapon fire? It's a Super! What do you expect? Remember, the Cauterize effect as well, if you "feed" the Titan's super by allowing him/her to get kills he regains his health! So instead of taking the foolish strategy of charging a tank head-on, try running away instead? Put that Agility and Recovery to good use. You wouldn't charge a Bladedancer and expect to come out on top more that 10% of the time... Again, It's important to remember that Supers trump casual weapon fire. It's common sense. [quote]Titan's throw too many hammers![/quote] Titans give up the powerful Suncharge and Scorched Earth perks when selecting Forgemaster effectively nerfing their own lethality in order to throw a few more hammers. Nothing unfair to report here, this simply compensates for the lack of other powerful abilities a Sunbreaker could potentially possess. We see this constantly with numerous sub-classes. [quote]Sunbreakers are ruining the once beautiful Crucible.[/quote] You're almost completely correct. I think this what you meant to say: Sunbreakers are ruining the once [b]corrupt[/b] Crucible. Sunbreakers are obliterating the unfair monopoly Warlocks and Hunters once held over the Crucible grounds. Hunters and Warlocks have enjoyed PVP [u]domination[/u] throughout all of Year 1 due to their PVP tailored Supers. Titans, on the other hand, had one decent sub-class for PVP (Striker) and one pathetic PVP sub-class (Defender). Hunters and Warlocks simply upset that they no longer can abuse the powerless Titan. Bungie recognized the imbalance in PVP and addressed the issue perfectly in the creation of the Sunbreaker. Now, all guardians stand equal. And like the Phoenix, Sunbreakers arise from their Nova-Bombed, Gun-Slung, Sun-Sung, Blade-Danced ashes and torch any discrimination towards their fellow Titans. [quote]Well, err... umm... everyone else agrees with me that Sunbreakers are OP![/quote] Here is where I interject my opinion: I believe that due to the majority of Destiny players playing as Hunters and Warlocks, there is a significantly massive bias towards the much smaller Titan population. So of course there are more people crying for a Sunbreaker nerf compared to those who oppose a nerf. The numbers clearly indicate that most Guardians are Hunters and Warlocks that can't easily dominate the Crucible anymore. The Hunter/Warlock population is frustrated so they all throw a tantrum. Due to sheer volume of Hunters/Warlocks, that obnoxious tantrum has grown into a foolish uproar. Now [i]that[/i] is unfair. End. I encourage and invite anyone who disagrees with my rhetoric to address me in the comments. Thank you! Also, I'd like to thank Bungie for their hard work in rebalancing the Crucible by creating Sunbreakers. Without you, Titans would have forever faded further in the Crucible. Which Guardians think HoS should be nerfed? Find out at this poll: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/165463843/0/0 [b][u]Additional points generated by this beautiful community[/u][/b] [quote]Avly485: HoS is inferior to GG because HoS is like a fusion rifle with travel time. The aoe explosions offset the fact that it isn't hit scan like GG.[/quote] [quote]ssolidus007: I main a Void Hunter and could not agree wth you more. If I die at the hands of a hammer it's my own damn fault. Nothing more satisfying than hearing the anvil pop and just wrecking him in the chest with my void bow. Plus it's just fun running away, it's like cat and mouse or intergalactic David vs Goliath.[/quote] [quote]Xenith: It's not that they have extra armor. They have damage reduction of 55%, the same as a Sun Singer with Radiant Skin active.[/quote] [quote]Wagsman1: The reality of Crucible is what this guy said. Hunters and Warlocks have ruled because of their superior abilities. Titans now have a Super that is on par with the other two classes. It's only an issue because now Hunters and Warlocks are getting a taste of their own medicine.[/quote]
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Its op just accept it, it doesn't matter if it gets a nerf or not. This is what I hate, Titans finally gets something really awesome and people are trying theyre hard to deny it. Its freaking OP accept it and savour the moment while it last. Stop telling yourself its not op.. Its not op..It's not op..It just shows how desperate you are. Accept the fact and be happy, let the haters hate and let them whine, because when the time comes Im sure tables will turn, and we will be the one whining and them defending -.-.
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작성자: captainprice2316 10/24/2015 6:19:42 PMSo sunbreakers are bladedancers with even more damage resistances due to being Titans. Then with an unlimited high blast radius. This already sounds OP. Ten, the super lasts up to 26 seconds! And, the "golden gun shots with the blast radius of a rocket launcher" can have tracking. They even get instant regen on every kill like bladedancer. Now this subclass is totally not the slightest bit OP?! Take a trip into mayhem my fellow guardians if you're a sunbreakers you'll get guaranteed 5 kills per super and have no fear apart from other sunbreakers. Yes sunbreaker does need balancing.
