Lost Sols makes a good point. That majority of people complaining about SBs and those who complained about thorn were barely average to below average players in PvP. No disrespect but you barely break even when you play PvP. I could see your point if you had tons of wins or were in the top 10% or higher in multiple PvP categories on Destiny Tracker but that's not the case. The fact is Bungie has nerfed weapons in the past based on complaints and not enough data. There was nothing wrong with Thorn. It was overused and popular because bungie nerfed ARs into the ground. Yet it could still be beat buy other weapons in the right hands. Red Death, Midi in the right hands, and the TLW up close among others. I used Thorn since before it got popular and got beat by other players with these weapons. Instead of being objective about it and making ARs viable again while leaving everything else alone they listened to all the complainers like you and nerfed the whole weapon class to hell. If anything all HCs needed were a range nerf and that's it. As Lost Sols pointed out the same thing is happening with SB's hammers. People who can't adapt to it are complaining that it's OP without trying to find ways to counter it. I main a Titan and when I hear the hammer I run unless I have something to counter it with. I have stated in several other posts that SB's in super are NOT impossible to bring down. I have killed them with shotgun + melee with No Back Up Plans on a def Titan. A machine gun. FOH with unstoppable. Nova bombs, and high impact snipes to head. Despite what others are saying about not being able to head shot snipe them out of super it is in fact possible. I've had it done to me along with all of the above. Another thing people aren't taking into account is armor perks that lessen elemental damage. As you got hammered did you happen to look at what the guys who killed you were wearing and what the perks were? I doubt it. I wear a chest piece that lessens solar damage when I see lots of players using solar damage supers or weapons. Also certain weapons give armor increase like Boolean. How do you know that certain SBs didn't have the buff active just before or during their super. It stacks up to three times last up to 15 seconds or more. That said, it's essential that Bungie understand balance based more on data and not player hyperbole or complaints. I'm frustrated with needless nerfs like what happened to Thorn. HOL is not OP. Just adapt to it and deal with it. Oh and for the record. I have an overall KD of 1.34 across all my characters. I have two titans and a warlock. I used to have a hunter but deleted it because I don't like the way they played and think and have distinct advantages in PvP that Bungie hasn't addressed. Example no one is complaining about people spamming shade step when it should have a more noticeable cool-down. I mostly play rumble and my KD there is 1.6 - 1.7. I've won over 530 rumble matches mostly as a striker and over all win some 30+% of my rumble matches. So I feel I can speak objectively about it. Also I've gone to the lighthouse every week on usually 2-3 characters and win almost 70% of my trials matches.

This. She (I assume bc 3 female chars) hasn't even used the titan in PvP since right after ttk came out... almost a month since used in PvP... you know, before people even had a chance to adapt to the HoS. Hers is an example of an emotionally-driven op perception. Its equivalent to the difference between saying Crota is difficult on the first night it came out and the perceived difficulty after we all learned the mechanics a week or three in. Just my opinion.

Scrub.

Come on sols, I know you're reading, don't make the party end. I'm still curious about in which way you think your bullshit should be correct. Or maybe it isn't like... it's actually bullshit you persist to pretend it's right for some self-absorbed reasons? Prove I'm wrong explaining the logic of your statements. If your mind can grasp this, but I'm not sure :)

Still waiting :)

Yup honestly I wasn't expecting a clever answer at this point rotfl. In case I made some mistakes, sorry. English is not my first language. Now what about avoiding to change subject and actually explain your bullshit?

Yea, also. It's damn funny how sols just can't get it. But as I said, pvp isn't his matter. After found that even logic isn't his matter, I doubt he could speak something about pve too.

Jesus, phuckin, christ... Such a disappointment. Don't even sure which reply I should pick. I'll go fallacyman. Other than all the billions of fallacies you had fun spreading all over your pointless words, like the hominems and that hilarious conclusion where I might be just another crybaby of this forum; the umpteenth anecdotal and that even more hilarious half-strawman (can't believe you did wrong even a fallacy rotfl), you actually missed the whole point in a marvelous way. I said the coiled hiss argument doesn't prove anything, and just after that you came out with an ENTIRE post on it. Amazing. You're actually [i]that[/i] retarded. Honestly, I don't see even one reason to go further with this conversation, from the moment it's like you didn't actually gave me a real reply, according to all the fallacies you committed. Now read your last sentencies and change the subject.