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작성자: DeadlyByDesign1
8/21/2015 2:47:35 PM
258
WoW Player here....
[b]EDIT 2: IN BIG CAPS PLEASE READ!!!!!! I AM NOT SAYING DESTINY SHOULD BE WOW OR DESTINY IS AN MMO. I AM SAYING IT BORROW THE SAME TROPES AS AN MMO. PLEASE RE-READ THE PREVIOUS AND LETIT SINK IN[/b] [u][/u]
I really don't get all the hate that Bungie are getting with TKK?
In WoW every year we have to deal with the previous versions of your armour and weapons getting weaker as content gets higher levelled. This is common an MMO-esque space. Why is it so hard to accept here?
EDIT: EDIT: A lot of people seem caught up on the MMO aspect that I have suggested. For a start I called it “MMO-esque”, which means (in my mind), it borrows MMO mechanics and this is irrefutable. I have taken the liberty of doing a comparison below. Again this is fact
Destiny
Daily quests- Wow has this
Raids- Wow has this
Loot system (green, blue purple, exotic)- Wow has this
Battlegrounds/PvP- Wow has this
Currency- Wow has this
Strikes- Wow has this
Level associated gear/weapons-Wow has this
Levelling- Wow has this
Social Spaces- Wow has this
Gear Progression -Wow has this
FPS- No wow does not have this
English
#Destiny
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76 답변Because Destiny is a unique hybrid game that drew WILDLY different kinds of gamers, who came to it with WILDLY different expecations of that the game was...and what it should have been. It drew both console gamers....and long tgerm PC gamers. it drew both older gamers...and younger ones. It drew both MMO and action-RPG gamers (like you and I) but also hard-core FPS gamers. As both a long term PC gamer....and a long term MMO, and action-RPG gamer.....NOTHING Bungie has done over the last year came as a suprise to me. I've been around the block enough times to know that 90% of what they are doing is just standard practice in these kinds of games...and the other 10% can be chalked up to their inexperience with them. But the problem is that a lot of Destiny players are FPS gamers...and many FPS gamers play NOTHING ELSE. So all they know is what gets done in games like Battlefield and Call of Duty. Games that let them unlock gear and put together favorite "loadouts". Gear that comes to them fairl quickly...and that they get to keep for the entire life of the game (even if thats only one or two years). They are not used to having to grind and grind and grind to get one particular weapon. They aren't used to RNG loot systems, and having desired items that just refuse to drop. They aren't USED TO A GAME EXPANDING IN A MODULAR FASHION (like an MMO) and they aren't used to having their favorite gear obsoleted in the context of a continuing game. Old hat to some of us.....but an eye-opening experience to some. But Bungie is also running into problems with their economic model as well . They treating Destiny like it was a PC based MMO...and expanding it modularly, and having us pay for new content as we go so that they don't have to charge a monthly sub fee. Once again, shooter bros aren't used to this. They are used to a SEQUELIZED model where the core game is something that is released once a year....or once every TWO years....and the DLC is OPTIONAL content that is filler to tide people over. So if you don't buy it, you aren't really missing out on anything critical. They AREN"T used to a model where youa re being charged for critical content every few months. They aren't used to this...and instinctively think they are being taken advantage of.
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3 답변[quote]In WoW every year we have to deal with the previous versions of your armour and weapons getting weaker as content gets higher levelled. This is common an MMO-esque space. Why is it so hard to accept here?[/quote] Your point is invalid here. Destiny is not letting exotics or legendry weapons "fade away", they are force retiring them. Did WoW charge extra for increased vault space? Did WoW "nerf" weapons for balance, or did they "buff" other weapons for balance? WoW is subscription based so even indirect comparisons to Destiny are disingenuous.
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You said: [quote]IT BORROW THE SAME TROPES AS AN MMO[/quote]... Well, I agree and disagree...Typical RPGs have a lot of what you mentioned ...lets see how many: Daily quests- More mmo side Raids- More mmo side Loot system (green, blue purple, exotic)- Typical RPGs Battlegrounds/PvP- Heck, even Dragon Age has pvp... Currency- Typical RPGs Strikes- Strikes may be defined differently with each game... Level associated gear/weapons-Typical RPGs Levelling- Typical RPGs Social Spaces- More mmo side Gear Progression -Typical RPGs FPS- No wow does not have this
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5 답변Wow loot works completely different than Destiny though. Perks in wow gear all boil down to stat upgrades. Your epics give you higher numbers which make your dps number higher. Even the more complex set bonuses and procs can all be given a number to approximate their dps boost. Destiny loot is different. The perks on exotics aren't a straight numerical dmg boost the way all loot in wow is. They have unique effects on gameplay that can't be boiled down to simple dps upgrades (at least for the well designed pieces I think Gjallahorn is an example where it wasn't so much about unique gameplay changing perks but just a pure big dps boost). Having radar show up while zoomed or even OP icebreaker ammo regen effected how you play the game and your strategy tackling pve content though. These aren't simple straight dps upgrades. It makes sense in wow to throw out old loot because of the way combat and dmg works in that kind of game. If say you took tier 1 raid loot and upgraded it to tier 4 the two pieces of loot would look virtually the same. They'd just differ cosmetically. In destiny if you take an exotic with a unique perk and upgrade the stats it's still a unique piece of loot because Destiny isn't entirely a numbers game like WoW.
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Absolutely. But with Destiny it's every 3 months. Till they apologized, then did it again. And most MMOs these days have upgrade paths to take gear with you as you level, till you reach end game gear. With Destiny you reach end game gear the day a dlc launches. THAT'S the problem.
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1 답변As a person who has played MMOs extensively, as it seems like you have as well? How the hell do you think an online FPS with light RPG elements with good co-op events and peer to peer play with only a max of 16 player at most with sectioned off maps even remotely relates to an MMO? Destiny is FAR FAR from being an MMO.
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4 답변I came in from EVE Online @ OP Wrap that around your head and you'll get a sense as to why I spend most of my time on the forums face-palming and snarling.
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5 답변https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfsKzry6jQE did you live these day's were you one of the few ?
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It's similar and it's also different. Pulling fans from both sides of its genres are going to have wildly different expectations. The FPS factor alone will change a lot of things in the same way you can't expect the same from a puzzle game as a shooter. They're going to have to adjust to the masses if they want it to succeed. Not the other way around. And they'll figure out the new genre in time, I hope.
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4 답변
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I think Crota's Raid gear should be upgraded with all Exotics. Remember Vex Mythoclast is suppose to be a defining reward for beating VoG Raid. Crota raid items need to be moved forward because Oryx, you can't tell me you don't wanna kill Oryx with Crota's Word lol. We are also not asking for the TTK upgrade for any items to be handed to us on a silver platter like shown in the Twitch Stream, upgrading items to TTK status could be a pain in the arse so you have to pretty much choose what you bring forward. Doing an upgrade system that will be challenging to do will make players progress different things that will then make players unique like they always wanted us to be. You got to remember too that this isn't an MMO so treating it like the playerbase plays MMO's all the time is probably their mistake with all the lashback not to mention MMO's make you want to get the new stuff and leave your old gear behind as is not the case with Destiny. Destiny we are simply being forced to leave the stuff behind, this could be the fact that most of the older gear is more powerful than the newer stuff when all things are equal. I feel the leaving behind old gear isn't because it mimics a MMO but because they are trying to weed out their super OP Vanilla game weapons.
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6 답변just because mmo games use this design doesn't mean it is a good design also, lot's of people here aren't wow players. i've noticed that the only people here who don't mind letting their weapons go are seasoned mmo vets. Understand that lots of people don't want to feel like they wasted their time and want to keep their prized possessions. And because destiny doesn't have a character leveling system like wow, everything depends on grinding for gear. The gear [b]is[/b] the content, and letting that go is not what people want to do
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1 답변I couldn't agree more and as a previous WoW player from Vanilla until Cataclysm, I understand the trade off and just as lost as you that people have such an issue with the changes.
