[quote]Now you will be forced to do that instead of just setting up your campfire and camping in the back. [/quote] Nope. I Guarantee you that it's just going to make people camp longer now. The only time Icebreaker is used is night falls/raids. You're not really gonna get much accomplished by running out and going kamikaze with your primary. So, it's gonna be camp fest 2.0.

They would be justified if not 90% of all PvE mobs were bullet sponges. But hey,.. they are.

Gally and icebreaker nerfs may be justified but WAYYYYY to late. Especially gally. They should have nerfed it before it got out of hand and is now the king of all destiny weapons

The justification creates an unbalanced / negative emotional response. The correlation affects negatively across all of their social platforms. It's not possible to justify a response now because the acknowledgement would be a reactive response, which is not a plausible response. It would only create more turmoil. It's also not possible to incorporate PvP with PvE. The mechanics are completely different from one another. Trying to create an organic atmosphere of blending the two activities provides an unhealthy addiction with the users' involvement. Games like Destiny (and soon to be, The Division) are attempting this feat of integrating the two activities without proactively creating unity in the environments. Yes, next generation video games are socialistic because of the target audience. Capitalistic video games (games that never update / modify after the initial launch) will diminish because they are not cohesive to the social platforms we demand. The only way to balance PvE and PvP is to separate them completely. But this also separates the social paradigm the game attempts to create through its community. Hopefully, the developers and programmers imbibe the useful information provided by the social communities they created. Data charts and diagrams only provide the numbers related to the situations. These charts don't correlate with the emotions we've obtained by completing the tasks they created. A weapon is simply a number to them. If the number is too high, then they decrease the usage. If the number is too low, they provide a use to increase its value. The idea of checks and balances is economically sound, but video games are played by users who don't want balance. They are played by users who want leverage. And anytime you take away that control, you create a mutiny of negative emotional responses. Basically, we needed a weapon re-balance. But the extremity is not legitimized because it is solely based on numbers.

Let me reply to this with what I've been saying all along and quieting all the people that think this nerf was needed or justified. IB is not a cheap PvE weapon (Gally is and its nerf is justified though not for the reasons they listed there). It already sees very little use aside from Crota and some NF strikes with solar burn. Please read this: CAMPING IN PVE WILL NOT BE PREVENTED BY NERFING THE 2 BEST SNIPERS IN THE GAME. ALL IT WILL DO IS EXTEND PLAYING TIME ARTIFICIALLY. People will still camp. Why? Because the content forces players to camp. Bosses wipe you out in 1-2 hits. Same with adds. Everything end-game is a bullet sponge that cheaply kills players in 1-2 hits. Why should players risk it then? Snipe away. Camping is the most effective way of clearing end-game content. That's why you see all those cheeses tutorials on the tube. How to snipe from a safe spot. How to get up there in the ceiling against Valus. The bottom of the platform against Aksor (pre patch). The top of the cliff against Aksor (LMAO people are geniuses finding ways to cheese). So you want people to use Suros against NF bosses? Right... it's going to take a billion shots to take it down (exaggeration only). Meanwhile, you risk a wipe cuz you gotta be in auto rifle "optimal range" whatever that means. No one in their right minds would do that unless they didn't have a life and could play 24/7. Sniping/camping/cheesing gets it done quick, fast so we get our rewards and be done with. Don't be fooled by the change - nothing will change. Players will still camp. And snipe away. And find spots to play it safe. Nothing will change. It will only take longer. And in the end, that's all that Bungie wanted. They didn't want to force us to change playstyles, they wanted us to play the game for longer (aka artificially increasing playtime). As for BH? It is only useful against bosses. It is completely outclassed otherwise. Contrary to popular belief, it DOES NOT HAVE INFINITE AMMO. You have to land 3 crits in quick succession to get it. Is it ez to do that? Sure. So decrease proc time. So increase mag size. Or give it triple tap (in place of mulligan) and have it proc on 4 crit hits instead. But this nerf makes A RAID LEGENDARY MEANT TO BE BETTER THAN OTHER LEGENDARIES MUCH WORSE THAN RE-ROLLABLE LEGENDARIES FOUND ANYWHERE. Fatebringer dumps all over the other primary weapons. That includes exotics. Much better than Suros, Hard Light, NLB, Vex (situational), Thorn, Hawkmoon in PvE. Realistically, IT SAVES MORE PLAYING TIME THAN BLACK HAMMER DOES because bosses are only the end section of content while ADDS ARE EVERYWHERE. Fatebringer mows them all down. For every fallen walker, there are 3 wave sections you gotta face to get there. Fatebringer capitulates all those wave sections, saving minutes in the process. It wasn't nerfed (HC nerf was a wpn class nerf not an exclusive nerf). The logic behind the BH nerf is not consistent. Realistically, it was nerfed because TTK is more of the same, bullet sponges with ez to spot crit spots which means BH is once again king. They didn't create any new mechanics that would see Gally/BH be less effective so they decided to just take the easy way out: nerf players' tools.

Justified? I fully agree. But they were fun weapons to use. As you say the way bosses work should be changed. More mechanics and less bullet sponges.

The only problem I have with icebreaker isn't the charge time in pve. That's good and I get it. But I personally use it in pvp for my go to sniper. And I barely get one shot as it is the start of a match with 5 seconds. Going to 8 will cripple it's use for me. I mean all I have to do is find a new gun. But still. I love that gun.

I use the ice breaker close and personal, the additional 18 seconds is bullshit. It takes long enough as is, it's easier to pick up special ammo and use special ammo synths than to wait for a recharge at this point.

If everyone has black hammer, then that's 54 consecutive shots (without using a special ammo synth). That's easily enough to take out most bosses. Nothing really changes.