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Wyattnessにより編集済み: 12/19/2014 8:09:55 AM
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Why I'm leaving Destiny (replies added)

[b]12/19 - Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/85687452/0/0/1]Added replies to a few of the comments below[/url]. [/b]If you’re not interested in the discussion, please save us both time and ignore them. I’ve loved this game. I put [url=http://destinystatus.com/xbl/wyattness]500 hours[/url] into building three characters to 30/30/29 before The Dark Below and even started [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Forum/637970/0/1/0]a group to find undiscovered raid chests[/url]. I could level all three classes to 31.5 but I’ve decided not to. Seeing the direction the game has taken in the last few weeks, I’ve decided it’s time to move on. The [url=http://www.polygon.com/2014/12/15/7393695/destiny-dark-below-punishing-hardcore]Polygon[/url] and [url=http://kotaku.com/destinys-biggest-flaw-1671385299]Kotaku[/url] articles capture a lot of what I’ve been feeling but there’s more to why I’m leaving and seeing friends do the same: [b]1. The more dedicated you are, the more you get screwed [/b] The Polygon article’s money quote is spot on: “The system actually [i]punishes players proportionately to their dedication to the game[/i], and it's the stupidest thing I've ever seen a major game developer do to its community.” If you ran the raid 20+ times like I did and finally got level 30 gear, you saw it immediately obsoleted by level 31 vendor gear that required no skill to get. You could grind simple bounties or lose dozens of Crucible matches to buy better gear than you earn by mastering the Vault. A slap in the face. If you grinded to max five exotic weapons, you saw that work erased by the new upgrade system. (And yes, if you wanted your exotics to matter, upgrading again was necessary.) People who say obsoleted gear is a feature of MMOs like WoW are mistaken. When WoW releases new content – in large expansions on 12-18 month cycles – they make the previous top-tier gear important for getting the new top-tier gear. [b]Good MMOs have progression[/b]. You’re earning the ability to beat the next adventure. What Destiny is doing is [b]repeatedly creating a blank slate[/b]. You don’t need any of the level 30 armor or weapons to reach 31 – they’re actually a detriment because you could have saved your upgrade materials for 31 gear. Casuals get a nearly free ticket and dedicated players see their work washed away within weeks. DeeJ wrote, “Your feedback is clear: The time you have invested in your stuff should be respected.” I no longer trust Bungie will do that. [b]2. There’s too little payoff [/b] When I finally, finally hit 30 on my warlock, here’s what happened: my light number ticked from 29 to 30. No dramatic visuals, no cutscenes, no public announcement or rewards. I danced with myself in the Tower for 20 seconds and that was that. It was a microcosm of a larger problem. Because your hard-earned gear and weapons are quickly obsoleted, there’s no meaningful period to enjoy your work. There’s little time to feel like a rockstar or to help lower-level guardians who can level nearly as fast solo. Destiny wants you to be a legend but I think it makes you feel ordinary. Raid exploits made this worse. Have a Vex Mythoclast? You’re either a Vault of Glass badass or [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2k45jq/just_one_of_many_reasons_why_we_should_all_be/]a Joey who watched some warlock cheese Atheon off a ledge[/url]. There’s no way to distinguish. We’re seeing the same with Crota’s End. In a raid intended for top-level six-man teams, you can solo the maze and easily cheese both the bridge and Crota. You get no rewards for killing a level 32 deathsinger boss but can get an exotic within ten seconds of starting the raid after killing zero adds. What? [b]3. Just too much repetition [/b] Any prolonged challenge requires some degree of repetition, whether it’s practice or grinding. I’m up for that. But there’s a line where repetition becomes tedium. For me, Destiny has crossed that line. The DLC was a chance to introduce meaningful new missions, new enemies, new game mechanics, new storylines. The raid was fun the first times through but Omnigul is just another high-level wizard. The might/hand/eyes/gums of Crota are all enemies we’ve killed hundreds of times over. There’s no personality to them, no backstory. They’re not the Elusive Man or Flood or GLaDOS. They’re just angry pixels. When the community complained about the farming of materials for hours on end, Bungie let materials be bought at a loose rate… and introduced four new scarce currencies and made glimmer much more expensive. It feels like a shell game. A repetitive game that obsoletes your repetitive efforts within weeks is a recipe for disillusionment. Look at Reddit and these forums. One week after seeing their raid gear become useless and seeing weeks of the same cycle ahead, more players than usual are saying enough is enough. Among those staying, more than a few say they love and hate the game simultaneously. It’s what drug addicts say. Part of me is intrigued about the House of Wolves I already paid for (mostly for the raid), but I’m probably going to pass. I played a sport in college and a teammate said you get out what you put in but some things pay off more than others. Destiny’s effort-to-reward ratio has become too low for me – under 1.0 – and I don’t want to get sucked in again by its slot machine mechanics. I’m bummed about it. I’m an entrepreneur and respect any team like Bungie’s that tries to create something people love. I’ve met some fun people through the game who I probably won’t hear from again. If I hear about newly discovered raid chests, I’ll probably facepalm for not finding them first. I’ll miss the intensity of PvP and pulling out a last-second win. I do think Destiny has revealed a huge gaming desire. Look at how many people have said that they want the game Bungie teased. A shared-world sci-fi shooter with a great story that requires teamwork? World of Warcraft meets Mass Effect? Shut up and take my money. But unfortunately, I don’t think Destiny is the game we were looking for. Thanks to Bungie and all the players I met* for the good times. On some level, I'll miss you. * Except the guy who kept taking the heavy ammo without his teammates around. Screw that guy. P.S. Small edits to wording. I'm not trying to spoil anyone's fun, really. If you're still enjoying the grind, cool. I'm just venting my frustration and speaking to Bungie and the people who feel like I do.
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#Destiny

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  • Really good post and they're others who pretty much stated the same. Here is what gamespot feels about the map pack. http://www.gamespot.com/videos/hardcore-players-react-to-destiny-the-dark-below/2300-6422784/

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    • TeddyBundyにより編集済み: 12/17/2014 5:48:48 PM
      THIS! The Problem is...there are no better games to waste tons of hours on with friends. The Gunplay and Coop is just perfect. So I'll keep playing and playing till someday a better Destiny is out... It IS an addiction, no matter what. But every single point of your critic is a 100% fact.

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    • I feel you, got more or less the same opinion. But i'm an addict, i can't stop! I have bought other games since destiny came out but they just don't take me like this game did. There is a lot of work to be done by bungie to meet up with our expectations, Lets just hope they do!

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      • Bump

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      • I'm currently having that love/hate relationship with Destiny. I really hope Bungie addresses the "punishing dedicated players" thing soon.

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      • Well said man. Since the expansion I have lost a ton of desire to play this game. I'm still having fun to a certain degree but the excitement to hop on and play is no longer there. Feels more like a chore now sometimes. I'm getting close to the point of not playing anymore but I'm still hopeful for the future of this game. Curious to see where it will be 1 year from now

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      • This type of business has to have (and does have) the worst PR plus quality control management of any out there. The so called testing is bullshit...companies would come across all to most of these problems from development to after release. Bugs are so exploited and present i'm talking about them with my mates most everyday...the latest CE is some BS about everyone dieing at the bridge then the/a warlock self resurrects at about a second left for respawn, blah blah blah. Gets really old hearin' about (and sometimes comin' across) bugs that should have be caught many months ago. +1

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      • This is an awesome post because 100% true. I just wish they didn't -blam!- me. I tried to only buy the one dlc, it didn't let me. It forced me to buy both at once as a pack. -blam!-ing skanks

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      • I'm at the exact same point. Leveled my exotics, raid gear, and legendaries I liked, only to see them become obsolete. The improved RNG mechanics of the raid still feel bleh to me and I'm tired of running the same bounties for the 300th time to level my weapons and gear. For now I'm done. I'll head over to Dragon Age and immerse myself in that one.

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      • Good read but they got your money already..

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      • Cool story.

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      • *claps hands* Cheers and a bump for you.

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      • Agreed. I love this game but I cannot get past the fact that all my VoG gear can be outdone by someone who never did the raid and bought the new vendor gear. I think they should have made the vendor gear get folks up to level 30, not 31. Then I could take my VoG gear into Crota's End and you'd still have the distinction of VoG level 30 gear vs vendor level 30 gear so I can at least feel like a special snowflake. I also think they should have added one more upgrade node onto exotics and VoG raid weapons only so we could get them just above 300 to be better than Vendor or faction weapons. In WoW, during an expansion, you take your previous tier's raid gear into the new raid. You don't go out and buy vendor gear. When a new expansion comes out you eventually replace raid gear with quest gear again but even then I took my raid gear from the last raid of Mists of Pandaria all the way from level 90 to about level 98 to 100 before I replaced it. And expansions come out every 2 years, not every 3 months. If WoW followed this gear progression path between every raid I'd quit in a second. If House of Wolves does this I will likely quit Destiny. I want to take my raid gear into the new raid. Vendor gear should be for catching up only to the previous level cap for those who couldn't do the raid or had bad luck.

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      • Anyone that doesn't care or doesn't see the issue with loot progression is a casual scrub. Plain and simple. Everyone I raid with feels the same, this expansion was a big kick in the balls. It is fun, but this is starting to be overshadowed by the poor decisions surrounding loot progression. Bungie desperately needs to address the issue.

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        5 通の返信
        • I have a lot of the same feeling. Grinding over and over loses its fun. I like the games mechanics, but once the dlc hit and it essentially reset us to the point we were at when we hit 20... There needs to be an upgrade path that doesn't require scrapping all the gear you have and leveling new gear. I run 3 different chars, and I never have any helium... Haven't even run Crota, too busy with leveling up. If vendor gear was the same as voc gear, then I wouldn't have to level to 31, and would just jump into the raid and play the game rather than grind endlessly on gear that will be scrapped when I get gear. Basically it's too soon to increase the level cap. If you run 3x same char, it's not a problem, but 3x the same, you just have too much to level, especially on a limited time schedule.

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        • 1
          Whilst I don't agree on all of our points, +1 for keeping it relatively civil (not a fan of people using the term "we" to speak on their own indifference with the game). Also, an additional +1 for the use of "Joey" xD That's common tongue where I come from.

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        • Extremely valid points. That's said, I am having fun - and that's what it's all about. If it bothers me that much I will stop playing. You should too.

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        • Your post is quite good and I agree with the majority of it. but at this time I am still in a love/hate relationship with Destiny and will stick with it for a bit longer. But make no mistake that once another game comes out that catches my eye (The Division?) I will leave Destiny in the dust and never look back.

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        • You expressed my own feelings pretty clearly. I've had a vague notion that I'm in an abusive relationship with Destiny for a while, but the release of the expansion has really crystallized it for me by forcing me to confront the reality of the endless grind that is the soul of Destiny all over again. I very much want to stop playing on one level, but on another the gameplay itself remains as addictive as ever. My head says stop while my heart still wants to shoot things. I also agree that this is not the game that I thought it would be. I too followed this game with great anticipation. I pre-ordered it nearly a year before it came out. But it is not what I expected it to be based on the hype. It's not what I wanted it to be. It's something, and something that has been fun and frustrating in almost equal measure (enough fun that I put like 250 hours into it), but increasingly that something is not enough to keep me around. One interesting note about the whole experience, however: I will never pre-order a game ever again. Never. I will wait patiently for it to be released and for the reviews to come out before I invest.

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        • Well said OP.

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        • Mama BGにより編集済み: 12/17/2014 3:33:11 PM
          So you've averaged 5 hours a day, everyday, on this game that you are now complaining about. Tell me, did you play other games? Did you not play at all for days because you had other things to do? The ONLY people I hear complaining about having a lot of hours and getting bored with it are people who've done nothing else but play Destiny since it came out on September 9. Most people have jobs and families and lives and are lucky if they get 5 hours a week to play. Then we've got yokels like you who spam play the game and then complain because it is too repetitious. It is not Bungie's fault that you have no life outside of Destiny. I agree there are elements of the game that are still broken; but not broken enough for a whiny tirade on a message board. Also, a wise person told me that you get out of something what you put into it. If Destiny is boring, perhaps you should look in the mirror to solve that issue.

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          11 通の返信
          • I feel the same.

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          • I sadly have to agree with all of the above. I reached my tipping point last night, actually. Was on a weekend trip this past weekend, so I didn't get to hop in for my clan's (I founded it) first dip into the new raid. I hopped on last night for the first time since last Thursday - unheard of for me as I've played at least 5 hours a day and almost every day since release. I came back to find that my clan had already beaten the raid the night before, and as I went through for my first time last night, my disappointment was almost tangible. We walked through the whole raid in less than an hour with only a few deaths, and because of it's short length and relative simplicity, it just wasn't that fun. I grinded so hard to get so many exotics and legendaries maxed before DLC, and with the changes to upgrades coupled with this lackluster raid - for the first time I just have no motivation at all to grind how many more hours to get my exotics back up to snuff and speed run the raid til I'm max level again....for the first time, the entire prospect just doesn't have any fun left for me to squeeze out of it. Bungie just still has too much to learn about RPG/MMO elements, replayability, and investment vs. reward, and they're learning/implementing far too slow for me to enjoy the ride any longer. Sorry for the tears, y'all, but I'm just sad and really disappointed. I know...I know...good riddens...but this time I'm really gone. Hope the rest of you will still find fun in it.

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          • When i realized you need 189 radiant shards if you want to get 3 characters to 32 I called it quits as well. it would take over 12 weeks to get all my characters to 32. I haven't gotten more than 12 radiant shards from the sum of all my character in the last 2 weeks. To achieve this i could either play everyday for 12 weeks or just play one day a week till i get everything. people don't want a game you can beat without even playing. this game makes noobs feel like they are completing hard missions and challenges. just log in on tuesday and friday and you can beat the game

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          • I agree with 99% of what you said OP but I'm still hopeful for this game. I'm gonna stop playing for a few months and hopefully when I come back it'll be worth my time.

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          • Well written. I myself will be sticking with Destiny for awhile longer. Love the game and I am very fortunate that my real life friends are also enjoying the game still even with the changes. I hope Bungie reads these forums and makes the changes needed for this game to survive.

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