What if someone leaves in your fireteam or lose connection?? So same problem so your argument doesnt really proof anything

Its entirely stupid folks got time to complain on forums but cant form up on forums. Mind blown.

Both sides of the argument are just going to have to wait and see. The devs decide what happens first and if it doesnt work out, it'll change. It really all comes down to how difficult is this actually going to be? Which we dont know yet. So shut up... everyone! No amount of complaints will change it until then. No need for counter arguments to the complaints. We just sit on our bored asses, and wait [spoiler]Blamming August making us all bitchy cx[/spoiler]

If someone leaves then the game just got that much harder (and more fun) and you have to deal with it or give up.

The only way i would be even remotely ok with matchmaking for raids is if we got written legally binding contracts with bungie saying they promise to a.) not nerf the raid for mm groups and leave a harder version for groups that actually organize b.) Leave the raid at its already ungodly difficult setting c.) provide a special emblem for people who get a group without matchmaking and finish the raid. d.) provide a function where if someone is legitimatly at fault for causing the matchmade raid team to fail (dropping out for the hell of it, zerging, not cooperating, etc) they can recieve a week long raid suspension with 3 votes from the group that prevent that person from being able to enter the raid, via matchmaking AND organized grouping, for the duration. This suspension would be applied to the account, so all the players guardians would be suspended from the raid for the week. and if it happens excessivly (4 or more times in the span of two months) They will be banned from raid matchmaking

You're comment doesn't make any sense. "Players would drop in and out of games ON PURPOSE to be matched into a game a few hours in and almost at the end." If the best rewards are at the end which they probably are then why would anybody leave the dungeon to be replaced near the end? There are not going to be many on the last boss fight groups needing a new player. If you are lucky enough to get paired into a Raid that's almost finished then so what? They are probably happy they didn't need to quit just because a group members internet went down.... and if you didn't have a match making system all you are going to do is spam your clan forums for randoms or spam on bungies website looking for a equally random replacement. We are already just spamming for randoms on here just so we have people on our friends lists to reach out too. Those aren't friends in any sense of the word....and we certainly have no measure of their skill or team player quality. You could also do things like make the raid into sections and when match making you can't be grouped into a farther section then you have successfully beaten yourself. So if you are new you never get sent into a group past the very beginning. This would allow new players to meet some people interested in raiding through the game and also give them a taste of what its like. The difficulty will almost assuredly make the run a failure, but good practice and an opportunity for experienced players who are just running for fun to lead and teach new comers. This would also help pre-made teams of friends who lose a man or two after a few hours and need a qualified replacement. The player they get would be guaranteed to be experienced in those fights and would probably end up being a possible new friend to invite along later. The farther into this reportedly most difficult part of the game you go the less and less qualified people would be available for match making making it more and more necessary to have reliable friends to call upon. Also somebody will always pick a friend before match making, and will probably pick a clan mate before match making if they are serious about their clan. What ruins raids isn't the match making its the lack of difficulty. If coordination, strategy, and communication are required than that's what the experienced raiders will be bringing. Does it really matter if it comes from a real life friend, a random Destiny raiding fake friend, or a match making raid veteran?

As I began typing this comment, I was going to start it with "I don't understand why people want matchmaking". Then it struck me like a bolt of lightning, and I suddenly felt the IQ points slowly coming back after being momentarily lost for a second there. It's 2014. We're on the 8th (I think?) generation of consoles. Digital content, micro-transactions, yearly sequels, and timed exclusives roam the Earth. Video games are rapidly shifting from having their value lean heavily on longevity and single player, to having it push more towards multiplayer capabilities, replay value (seeing and playing the same content again and again), and PvP interactions. Needless to say, playing video games has become part of a "fast" lifestyle. They cater more to the person who wants a quick fix, rather than the dedicated fan that will play the game for years to come. People want games they can come home to after work, play for 30 minutes every other day during the week, and go to bed. Or the kid who can only log so much time into a game before his parents tell him to get off. Or the trophy/achievement junkie who wants to be told by the Devs when he's done playing a game, and move onto the next one. But that doesn't mean these people don't want to have everything the game has to offer. They want everything-the armor, the weapons, the XP, the trophies, the achievements, etc-they want it ALL, and they want it FAST. The faster they get it, the better. And nothing is faster to complete than something that lacks difficulty. The less you have to do as an individual, to better yourself and your odds, the faster the game will be. There are people who don't want to be challenged, but want to be entertained, and there are people who are reluctant to ask for a challenge, but want to "prove" themselves without investing time or effort into it. Then there are those who want something tough. Something that will push them back when they push it; something that'll require blood, sweat, and tears to do, and the longer they struggle, the more of the experience they take away with them when it's over They want something that's genuine enough to be as satisfying as reaching a milestone in reality. And there are a few of us out there that are in between these three types. Sadly, most people fall in the first and second categorization. They don't want to be challenged, they want the [i]illusion[/i] of challenge. They want to be rewarded for every last thing they do in a game-and over a short period of time-only to have another tiny carrot dangling over their head to make them sit down another two or three days later. And they will be perfectly happy if they don't remember what they just did or played, because they will be looking for the NEXT quick fix. They live in the moment. This is exactly how it is with the complaints regarding Destiny. People are intimidated by the fact that they have to make their own luck with Raids. They don't want to spend hours completing a task, with no clear objective or waypoint, without a voice telling them where to go, they want to spend MINUTES, or maybe an HOUR- completing a task-or at least have mini-goals so they feel like they're getting somewhere. They don't want to have to build, bond, and work well with their own team. They want the devs to do it FOR them. Tell them to play with random people they've never met, and likely never will meet again. They don't want to have to toil, struggle, fall, tumble, and crawl up to the huge, delectable carrot at the end of a long, grueling journey with twists and turns that will fill them up and satisfy their lust for a pristine, long-lasting gaming experience. They want the tiny carrots that continuously spawn to replace the one they just ate, which were conveniently placed a meager distance in front of them, easily visible. NO, THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO SPEND TIME PREPARING FOR A CHALLENGE THAT REQUIRES DELIBERATE, CONCENTRATED, AND WELL-PLANNED ACTION. THEY WANT TO RANDOMLY GET REWARDED FOR SOMETHING THEY WEREN'T EVEN AWARE OF AS A CHALLENGE IN THE FIRST PLACE. THEY JUST WANT TO BE JUMPING AROUND, SHOOTING IN RANDOM DIRECTIONS, AND SUDDENLY SEE "Oh hey, I got a kill." Ask yourself, people. Do you want a fast, forgettable, 30-minute experience with people you have never even met, or do you want to fight for your lives, work together, fall together, rage together, regroup together, and eventually triumph together, with people you know and trust-and will likely grow closer to because of this? "no fgt i wanna pleh mai gaems b4 bed" k nvm. Sorry I wasted your time.

You can hop in, I've joined plenty of half finished strikes in the beta.

It's called re que for a new party member... You must be new to RPGS

Post a thread on bungie "we need one person for a raid ASAP" first come first serve

Do you really want to be the sorry sap who joins a raid half way through?

The risk of using matchmaking. I won't use it but if someone else needs it then why not? They know that someone might suck or leave, better then not even trying it tho.

What If your friend leaves... same difference

What if someone gets disconnected? would you rather loose the raid, or hope that maybe if you can hold out you might get a random to help you limp to victory?

So what if you planned a raid with friends and one of your friends leaves? Argument right back open again.

How come no one wants a "private mission" option so we can have both matchmaking and no matchmaking?

I think they thought about this. I feel like they probably made it to where you keep playing with 5 people instead of restarting all the way back. You know bad connections can lead to disconnects and if you restart because ONE PERSON had a bad connection well you are gonna have a lot upset consumers...