Yeah, that's another discussion but pretty ridiculous that to get a high score they are making the loadout restrictions ever stricter after months of everyone complaining about loadout restrictions.

They aren't actually... Constantly becoming less strict. I doubt they're trying for top scores because it is spicy. However, Bungie is making the loadout stake 5 for everything now. Related to that and the core of your topic... I did a max modifier bow run. They perform well in most parts, but remember how WE used to break immunities? Whatever they did to counteract that ruins bows vs constructs... It takes so many shots with a bow to break a blight 😭. The enemies were dying just fine. When thinking on how to be faster, my main concern is breaking those blights. I do exactly what they're doing... bring draw times down a bit first then tune dmg after.

Which bow were you using? I'm assuming you were in ultimate salt mines. There's a difference between feeling ok and being able to compete with other weapons. That ok feeling, if you would put on any other primary your kills/minute would go way up.

Sure... that's why you start w drawtime buffs then buff dmg. I'd look at the constructs issue too. I used Hushed Whisper... Ax, Levi then switched to HW, Le' Bow, Submersion. They all felt good except can't break blights quickly. It's bow perks... messing with the dps can have issues as we've seen many times in the past. They're trying though, they're trying to make bows better in PvE.

"They're trying" with a 7-20ms draw time buff to the base draw time? And that is negated because the draw time floor is still the same. So won't make any difference for any decent bow. If the path is to adjust draw time first, bigger speed buffs are needed. And mostly needed to the floor. The minimum draw time allowed for each bow type, the floor, has to be adjusted with any speed "buff". I also see this "They're trying" as a troll or slap in the face from bungie. Bows are so out of tune and the buff they give won't even be noticeable and that is their grand plan. And if draw speed first then damage is the plan, with that draw speed buff the corresponding damage buff will have to be around 100%. And keep in mind there is a huge difference between the performance of bows against red bars and orange/yellow. They will feel fine against red bars. But unlike other weapons bows suffer from a huge cliff when enemies become tankier. Tyranny of heaven is a good example. I would argue it's the best feeling weapon in the game in low difficulty/patrol areas. But introduce any enemy with health and it becomes useless relative to other primaries.

Nope. I wanted to review the notes again. This is about one bow with one perk combination for you. The floor is being lowered, and for the bow types that aren't perks can still drop it. Remember I mentioned bow perks? Archer's Tempo will work.

It is not about 1 bow. I gave 1 bow as an example on how they fall off a cliff with difficulty, so it is imperative that they match the dps of other ranged primaries. It is about all bows except for wishender, which is an outlier. I reviewed the notes again as well. "Lightweight Bows will retain their same minimum draw time". Meaning this change does nothing. For precision bows, at the fastest draw time "elastic string" it is a 12ms buff. That is nothing and not even noticeable. For recurves it is a 20ms buff, again not really even noticeable. If the game is running at 60fps, 1 frame is 17ms. So good luck noticing a 1 frame buff. If bows were in an ok place and just need very fine tuning, I would be ok with this change. But they are drastically out of band and need a massive buff. I've been running techsec with the new 180 kinetic scout. I really want to run the new kinetic recurve bow. But I'm just throwing when I do. And the recurve bows have the least amount of damage problems out of all the bows. Bow perks will still do the same exact things that they did before. Archer's tempo still works exactly the same. Damage on bows is so low relative to everything else that everyone running a bow is already maximizing draw time, which includes running perks like archer's tempo. So you can't use these "baseline" perks as reasoning towards your argument that the buff bungie did is ok. If we were discussing a weapon type that does 10% less damage than the others, then I would be ok with this change. But we are talking about a weapon that does nearly half the damage of other primaries.

They're not. I got my 1% Salt Mines run w all bows. If bows can hang w max modifiers at Ultimate Deltas... they're good. Should they be brought up? They are. Again, it's the amplifying effects bow perks can have is why they are being cautious. Slow draw bows need the most help. But every bow is getting buffed. Not too long ago, Le' Bow ruled the sandbox... WE has broken encounters for years. It's not "a slap in the face".

You must be new. Salt mines on ultimate is not hard content. And talk about a bad case of projection 🤣. You are basing your feelings off a single activity. And this activity is 90% red bars 🤣. Try playing something harder. I was all for a good debate with you, but your stance isn't based on anything valid. Edit: And LM didn't rule the sandbox. That was bolt charge. And the issue was with how bolt charge interacted with DoT weapons. That's why anarchy was also a go to.

With max modifiers... go do one. You don't want to accept reality. Before they change the loadout restriction go get a 1 % score in the Salt Mines. With your Tyranny, lol. That's what this is all about for you. 😇👍💠

Omg 🤦‍♂️. Your reality is that a max modifier ultimate salt mines are hard, and that is so funny 🤣. It's all red bars. You also think LM was recently OP but don't understand actual details. Yeah, your opinion doesn't matter here. But continue telling yourself that you are elite. You just keep showing you don't know what you are talking about. An "elite" noob I guess.