You know what else is hard to deal with? Titans with Overshields or Bolt Charge. Warlocks in Rifts that constantly heal.

You say that like it does all that at once as a base ability. It either reloads your equipped weapon, --OR-- returns melee energy (because gambler's dodge got nerfed pretty damn hard) and it doesn't break aim assist at all. The reason it feels that way is because when somebody is moving one way and in a split second goes the other way, you're going to lose tracking. Now if you want to talk overall functionality, it definitely CAN do alot, especially on prismatic. I like using ascension and Threaded Spectre together. I think the big problem people have with it though, is how drastically different it is compared to Barricade and Rift. Those two have just as much utility as dodge, but they never get talked about.

You actually think barricade and rift have as much utility as dodge? 😂 You better be saving some of that stuff for your friends.

Here are all the things you can do if you build into. This excludes anything that exclusively affects factors such as regeneration with no benefits to casting said ability. Not all exotics that affect class abilities may be seen here due to combining effects of abilities, aspects, fragments and exotics. Titan Barricade: Towering - Creates a large cover that blocks damage, damages enemies that come behind it, and draws hostile fire in PVE. Rally - Creates a small cover that blocks damage, damages enemies that come behind it, increases weapon haste, and draws hostile fire in PVE. Thruster - Admittedly, this is nothing more than a much quicker, less intrusive version of dodge. I'd like it alot better if not for the lack of any other effects at base value. Aspects: Juggernaut - Creates a frontal shield that blocks damage while sprinting, grantingnbold charge when it takes damage. Storm's Keep (Available on Prismatic) - Grants bolt charge upon casting your class ability. Barricade also steadily grant bolt charge while behind them. Bastion - casting barricade grants overshield and can extend and slowly regenerate overshields while behind it. Drengr's Lash (Available on Prismatic) - Barricade suspends and damages targets in front of you upon casting. Truster suspends and damages targets around you upon casting. Exotic Armors: Khepri's Horn - Solar barricade sends forth a wave of solar energy that damages and scorches targets. Final blows with these waves create sunspots. Lorely Splendor Helm - Casting a solar barricade creates a sunspot. Cadmus Ridge Lancecap - Final blows behind a stasis rally barricade creates diamond lances. Citan's Ramparts - Allies can shoot through towering barricade. Icefall Mantle - Replaces class ability with a burst of stasis that freezes nearby combatants, slows nearby opponents, and grants increased frost armor. Crest of Alpha Lupi - Casting a barricade, dealing sustained damage, or defeating a target creates a healing pulse. Heart of Inmost Light - Class ability increases melee and grenade regeneration rates and damage. Hoarfrost-Z - Replaces barricade with a wall of stasis crystals that grant increased weapon haste. Arbor Warden - Class ability causes your grenade to cast a barricade on impact. Hazardus Propulsion - Activating class ability fires loaded Exodus micro-missiles, damaging targets with EMMs increases damage with other EMMs and rocket launchers. Antaeus Ward - Sliding with full class energy creates a frontal shield that reflects damage. Stoicism (Spirit of the Inmost Light, Spirit of Hoarfrost, Spirit of the Horn, Spirit of Alpha Lupi) Warlock Rift: Healing - Grants constant healing. While at full health, gain an overshield. Empowering - increases weapon damage, ability regeneration, and ammo generation. Phoenix Dive - Besides being a maneuver-ability advantage(see what I did there?), also grants cure. Aspects: Heat Rises - Phoenix Dive also grants restoration and scorches targets upon landing. Hellion (available on prismatic) - Class ability creates a Soul-ar (get it?) mortar that scorches targets. Arc Soul - Rift grants arc souls to allies that pass through, which fire at target in front. Your Arc Soul also become supercharged while amplified. Child of the Old Gods - Rift creates void souls that damage and weaken enemies, granting benefits depending on your equipped rift (melee and grenade energy if healing, health if empowering). Defeating drained targets grants class ability energy. Frostpulse - Casting Rift freezes combstants. Freezing conbatants grants class ability energy. Weaver's Call (available on prismatic) - Class ability weaves threadlings and deploys perched threadlings. Weavewalk - Rift exits Weavewalk and grants Woven Mail. Exotic Armors: The Stag - Rift grants damage reduction to allies. Starfire Protocol - Damaging targets while inside empowering rift grants fusion grenade energy, final blows grant increased energy. Vesper of Radius - Rifts release shockwaves that damage enemies, creating an arc explosion on final blows and blinding targets if an arc super is equipped. Sanguine Alchemy - Targets damaged while in any Rift are marked, taking additional damage, further bonus damage granted for matching weapons to your super. Weapon final blows extend rift duration. Lunafaction Boots - Rift increases reload speed and empowering rift grants increased weapon range. Promethium Spur - Weapon final blows while standing in a healing rift crates a radiant pulse; empowering rift instead grants cure. Boots of the Assembler - Standing in a rift creates Noble Seekers that track and heal allies. Empowering rift NS grants both  you and your ally bonus damage. Secant Filaments - Void Empowering Rift grants devour and anti-overload attacks. Solipsism (Spirit of the Inmost Light, Spirit of the Stag, Spirit of Vesper, Spirit of Filaments, Spirit of Starfire) Hunter Dodge: Gambler's - Grants melee energy, scaled by melee stat, increasing gains while dodging near opponents. Marksman's - Automatically collects nearby ammo boxes and reloads weapons. Acrobat's - Makes nearby allies radiant. Aspects: On Your Mark - Class ability grants 1 stack of On Your Mark. Lethal Current - after dodging, melee has increased lunge, jolts targets, and damaging aftershock. Ascension (Available on Prismatic) - Upward propeller that amplifies allies and jolts targets. Vanishing Step - Dodging grants invisibility. Winter's Shroud (Available on Prismatic) - Dodging slows targets. Ensnaring Slam - Air dive to suspend nearby targets upon impact. Suspending targets this way grants Woven Mail. Threaded Spectre (Available on Prismatic) - Class ability creates a strand clone that draws PVE combatants attention and detonates if destroyed or approached. Threadlings seek out enemies if approached. Exotic Armors: Wormhusk Crown - Dodging slightly heals. Mask of Bakris - Dodge becomes faster+longer shift that grants stasis and arc weapons bonus damage. Dragon's Shadow - Dodging reloads equipped weapon, increases weapon handling and stability, increases movement speed, and class stat. Ophidia Spathe - Gambler's Dodge refreshes Scissor Fingers timer. Sixth Coyote - Grants a second dodge and intrinsic Reaper mod. Gyrefalcon's Hauberk - See me, feel me grants reserve overshield for nearby allies, deployed by using a class ability. Gemini Jester - Dodging disorients and removes enemy radar. Frost-EE5 - Dodge increases sprint speed. The Bombardiers - Dodging leaves behind an explosive present. Radiant Dance Machines - Primary weapon final blows grant dodge energy and can overflow dodge. Speedloader Slacks - Dodge reloads weapons and grants weapon haste. Relativism (Spirit of the Inmost Light, Spirit of the Dragon, Spirit of the Wormhusk, Spirit of the Coyote)

So no, in PVP the other abilities don't off the same utility. Rift healing can be interupted. Titan thruster is not like dodge in the fact that it does not break aim assist, same with Icarus Dash. Anybody can post all the subclass abilities in here. The point remains. In PVP, the hunter dodge is objectively the best class ability. Overshields are burnt down in a second. Rift requires you to stand in it and provides 0 cover and the healing means nothing while taking rounds. Barricade also requires you to stay put, although bolt charge is still pretty strong. Empowering rift doesn't change ttk unless you heavily spec into it and only on a few weapons and still need radiant etc. Dodge is op. Get out of jail free(breaks aim assist), and without much setup, reloads all weapons and refunds melee.

You keep throwing breaking aim assist up, but if at all, only for less than a second. You pretend like it makes you invulnerable or something when it doesn't. It literally just makes you harder to shoot in a moment where you are otherwise defenseless... Unless you've seen a Hunter snapshot you while mid-dodge... You clearly don't get the concept of reinforcing your position considering how obviously if you just throw them down in the middle of a clearing you're going to get overwhelmed. Are you trying to die or something? Also, thruster was basically forgotten about. I was surprised to see it in prismatic al all, it gets like no attention. And overshield being burnt down in a second? Gee, one second that could make the difference between killing your enemy or not, I wonder? I assume you're also related to Anthony Carmine from Gears of War, no? That idiot didn't know how to take cover either. Rally barricade is best used from the high ground, and even then you still need to duck down behind it or you're going to get popped like he did, obviously. Barricades are used to reinforce a position, not create one, like throwing barbed wire at the edge of your trench in WW2. It's the same reason certain Hunters are so good at popping heads with a ricochet throwing knife. Know your position. I know those crayons are delicious, but running in and expecting to tank everything is stupid. Empowering rift increases damage by 15%. That is still enough to make a bit of a difference. That's like the difference between T6 and T7 (probably more like T8) Resilience before TEOF. It doesn't seem like much, but you'll notice the difference. Did I also mention it intrinsically increases melee and grenade regeneration rates? I heard it's great with Starfire Protocol, among other exotics I may have mentioned. The reason Hunters are so deadly is because they were designed to breach enemy lines fast, destroy, and get out even faster; something that directly opposes Titans and Warlocks needing to reinforce positions. They may be glass cannons, but good luck hitting one. One last thing, Dragon's Shadow only reloads equipped weapons, and again, melee stat got nerfed into the ground for PVP.

I just want to point out that first you said it didn't break aim assist. You basically said "guardian go left, then guardian go right, and thats why you miss" now your saying if it does its only for a second. So the doge breaks aim assist for longer than most TTK's. And, since your so confident, let me just tell you what actually happens. Aim assist is removed the moment the dodge starts, once the doge animation completes, aim assist is reinstated. Educate yourself before you so confidently claim stuff you know nothing about. Edit: more salt came out this morning than I intended, so sorry for that. I understand people defending their main, I do. I just wish Bungie could actually balance all classes(they probably can't) but in PVP I think specifically the dodge is the most powerful ability, because of all the instant benefits it provides during the engagement. The other classes have their op abilities as well, but again, im speaking PVP.

I never actually tested it, my second account is down (Microsoft's end. Need to contact support). I just think it's ridiculous the idea that it does, but again, I never tested it, so IF it does it would be only while they are defenseless in the animation and can't use their weapons. The same reason Titans and Warlocks have a 20% damage resistance when they plant their class abilities (at least warlocks do) I saw on the ability breakdown page on (I wanna say it was) light.gg. And yes, most people just don't know how to use their class abilities. It should always be a location you can hold. If Titans and Warlocks were given the time to prepare, they could smack that Hunter like Burrito Bison against the graham chracker doors. The problem is with how fast Hunters are supposed to go in and out. Most people don't have the reaction time. It gets worse since they also boosted the mobility and sprint speed of Hunters in this latest patch. One last piece of advice, never follow a Hunter out. Keep your stronghold. They like to set traps. No doubt they'd have one with your name on it.

But wait, there's more. Hunter dodge also gives damage resistance during the animation (use to be full I-Frames) Update 2.8.0 patch notes The last time damage reduction was tuned for Hunter dodge. Reduced Damage Reduction during dodge in PvP from 40% to 32% So dodge -breaks aim assist (on top of being an evasive maneuver) -grants a 32% damage reduction in PVP -reloads or refunds melee(does both with no setup with exotic) -has fastest cool-down in the game I agree with you it's ridiculous.

Really? I don't feel like dodge should grant resistance. I didn't know it did. I do want to see the ability to "throw down" your rift or barricade instead of having to plant them. Think how dropping a bubble shield in Halo 3 worked. Then all you'd have to worry about is ending up like Carmine because your gun keeps jamming.

So, is there not a build that allows dodge to do that all at once? Edit:Dragons Shadow

That's why I said as a BASE ability. Yes, you can use an exotic to gain melee and reload, but I can use that argument for Barricade and Rift having extra utilities as well.

And what extra utility is close to that of a dodge on a very short cool-down? Does rift break aim assist? Does barricade refund a melee?

[quote]And what extra utility is close to that of a dodge on a very short cool-down? Does rift break aim assist? Does barricade refund a melee?[/quote] You're comparing apples to steak. I also almost always have my class ability as a Titan AND a warlock. I don't see your problem. Also, how about this? Does dodge heal you and grant an overshield? Does dodge damage enemies (barricade just can't kill enemies, however, from what I've seen). Ooh, maybe dodge can intrinsically grant me increases weapon damage, ability regeneration, and ammo generation all at once! Guess what does that. Here are all the things you can do directly affecting class abilities. This excludes anything that exclusively affects factors such as regeneration with no benefits to casting said ability. Not all exotics that affect class abilities may be seen here due to combining effects of abilities, aspects, fragments and exotics. Titan Barricade: Towering - Creates a large cover that blocks damage, damages enemies that come behind it, and draws hostile fire in PVE. Rally - Creates a small cover that blocks damage, damages enemies that come behind it, increases weapon haste, and draws hostile fire in PVE. Thruster - Admittedly, this is nothing more than a much quicker, less intrusive version of dodge. I'd like it alot better if not for the lack of any other effects at base value. Aspects: Juggernaut - Creates a frontal shield that blocks damage while sprinting, grantingnbold charge when it takes damage. Storm's Keep (Available on Prismatic) - Grants bolt charge upon casting your class ability. Barricade also steadily grant bolt charge while behind them. Bastion - casting barricade grants overshield and can extend and slowly regenerate overshields while behind it. Drengr's Lash (Available on Prismatic) - Barricade suspends and damages targets in front of you upon casting. Truster suspends and damages targets around you upon casting. Exotic Armors: Khepri's Horn - Solar barricade sends forth a wave of solar energy that damages and scorches targets. Final blows with these waves create sunspots. Lorely Splendor Helm - Casting a solar barricade creates a sunspot. Cadmus Ridge Lancecap - Final blows behind a stasis rally barricade creates diamond lances. Citan's Ramparts - Allies can shoot through towering barricade. Icefall Mantle - Replaces class ability with a burst of stasis that freezes nearby combatants, slows nearby opponents, and grants increased frost armor. Crest of Alpha Lupi - Casting a barricade, dealing sustained damage, or defeating a target creates a healing pulse. Heart of Inmost Light - Class ability increases melee and grenade regeneration rates and damage. Hoarfrost-Z - Replaces barricade with a wall of stasis crystals that grant increased weapon haste. Arbor Warden - Class ability causes your grenade to cast a barricade on impact. Hazardus Propulsion - Activating class ability fires loaded Exodus micro-missiles, damaging targets with EMMs increases damage with other EMMs and rocket launchers. Antaeus Ward - Sliding with full class energy creates a frontal shield that reflects damage. Stoicism (Spirit of the Inmost Light, Spirit of Hoarfrost, Spirit of the Horn, Spirit of Alpha Lupi) Warlock Rift: Healing - Grants constant healing. While at full health, gain an overshield. Empowering - increases weapon damage, ability regeneration, and ammo generation. Phoenix Dive - Besides being a maneuver-ability advantage(see what I did there?), also grants cure. Aspects: Heat Rises - Phoenix Dive also grants restoration and scorches targets upon landing. Hellion (available on prismatic) - Class ability creates a Soul-ar (get it?) mortar that scorches targets. Arc Soul - Rift grants arc souls to allies that pass through, which fire at target in front. Your Arc Soul also become supercharged while amplified. Child of the Old Gods - Rift creates void souls that damage and weaken enemies, granting benefits depending on your equipped rift (melee and grenade energy if healing, health if empowering). Defeating drained targets grants class ability energy. Frostpulse - Casting Rift freezes combstants. Freezing conbatants grants class ability energy. Weaver's Call (available on prismatic) - Class ability weaves threadlings and deploys perched threadlings. Weavewalk - Rift exits Weavewalk and grants Woven Mail. Exotic Armors: The Stag - Rift grants damage reduction to allies. Starfire Protocol - Damaging targets while inside empowering rift grants fusion grenade energy, final blows grant increased energy. Vesper of Radius - Rifts release shockwaves that damage enemies, creating an arc explosion on final blows and blinding targets if an arc super is equipped. Sanguine Alchemy - Targets damaged while in any Rift are marked, taking additional damage, further bonus damage granted for matching weapons to your super. Weapon final blows extend rift duration. Lunafaction Boots - Rift increases reload speed and empowering rift grants increased weapon range. Promethium Spur - Weapon final blows while standing in a healing rift crates a radiant pulse; empowering rift instead grants cure. Boots of the Assembler - Standing in a rift creates Noble Seekers that track and heal allies. Empowering rift NS grants both  you and your ally bonus damage. Secant Filaments - Void Empowering Rift grants devour and anti-overload attacks. Solipsism (Spirit of the Inmost Light, Spirit of the Stag, Spirit of Vesper, Spirit of Filaments, Spirit of Starfire) Hunter Dodge: Gambler's - Grants melee energy, scaled by melee stat, increasing gains while dodging near opponents. Marksman's - Automatically collects nearby ammo boxes and reloads weapons. Acrobat's - Makes nearby allies radiant. Aspects: On Your Mark - Class ability grants 1 stack of On Your Mark. Lethal Current - after dodging, melee has increased lunge, jolts targets, and damaging aftershock. Ascension (Available on Prismatic) - Upward propeller that amplifies allies and jolts targets. Vanishing Step - Dodging grants invisibility. Winter's Shroud (Available on Prismatic) - Dodging slows targets. Ensnaring Slam - Air dive to suspend nearby targets upon impact. Suspending targets this way grants Woven Mail. Threaded Spectre (Available on Prismatic) - Class ability creates a strand clone that draws PVE combatants attention and detonates if destroyed or approached. Threadlings seek out enemies if approached. Exotic Armors: Wormhusk Crown - Dodging slightly heals. Mask of Bakris - Dodge becomes faster+longer shift that grants stasis and arc weapons bonus damage. Dragon's Shadow - Dodging reloads equipped weapon, increases weapon handling and stability, increases movement speed, and class stat. Ophidia Spathe - Gambler's Dodge refreshes Scissor Fingers timer. Sixth Coyote - Grants a second dodge and intrinsic Reaper mod. Gyrefalcon's Hauberk - See me, feel me grants reserve overshield for nearby allies, deployed by using a class ability. Gemini Jester - Dodging disorients and removes enemy radar. Frost-EE5 - Dodge increases sprint speed. The Bombardiers - Dodging leaves behind an explosive present. Radiant Dance Machines - Primary weapon final blows grant dodge energy and can overflow dodge. Speedloader Slacks - Dodge reloads weapons and grants weapon haste. Relativism (Spirit of the Inmost Light, Spirit of the Dragon, Spirit of the Wormhusk, Spirit of the Coyote)

Apples to steak? You mean class ability to class ability. But keep huffing. We can go down any rabbit hole you like, but like I said, I hate that it refunds melee, reloads equipped weapons, and penalize the person aiming at the hunter by breaking aim assist. If you cant see how that one ability, on like a 12 second cool-down isnt OP, then i don't know what to say to you.

Hunters are drastically different than Titans and Warlocks in that instead of reinforcing their position, they go in fast, deal as much damage as possible, then get out. You're also tacking an exotic on, so obviously it's gonna sound better than the base function of rift or barricade. Now they did nerf the melee refund thing a bit into the ground with one of the recent updates, you have to admit. Now it requires some speccing into it for PVP. Even then, you'll still need to be within 15 meters of enemies, and that's a slippery slope.

It did get a nerf. With that said, go to the firing range and look at where 15m is in this game. Edit:most hunters probably weren't wasting a dodge at 15m very often before or after the nerf.

Invis in PvP... should only be a visual buff... it shouldn't affect aim assist or hit scan projectiles. Hit Scan projectiles and abilities straight up don't see an invis Hunter.