It's needs removing from pvp entirely, any female titan player with this setup can look identical to a hunter ,love the Cape so should only be visible in tower and anything pve not pvp. Don't give lame excuses like it's easy to tell because it isn't and if 3 players jump in all with the same color on it would make it impossible during rounds to figure out what class someone is unless using a weapon like a scout or sniper whilst in the match

[quote]It's needs removing from pvp entirely, any female titan player with this setup can look identical to a hunter ,love the Cape so should only be visible in tower and anything pve not pvp.[/quote] Pvp isn't bungie's focus, and it really isn't an issue no matter how much you and the other person cry about it. Just because you're both too inept to use your eyes doesn't mean everyone else is. [quote]Don't give lame excuses like it's easy to tell because it isn't and if 3 players jump in all with the same color on it would make it impossible during rounds to figure out what class someone is unless using a weapon like a scout or sniper whilst in the match[/quote] Seems the only excuses being made here are the ones made by you and the other person as to why you get killed by those players. If someone is so close to you that you need to rely on their armor and appearance to tell you what class they are playing, then why does it matter? They are already close enough to kill you or you them so making up an idiotic excuse that a cape, which clearly isn't a hunter [u][b]cloak[/b][/u] is the reason why you lost the fight is a waste of time.

There are plenty of hoodless capes. And brother, I have triple the flawlesses you do. I have absolutely no need to ego that hard. I'm confident enough in the skill that I have that I can admit when I've lost to someone because they were simply a better player. That's not the issue here, and you're the only person trying to make that the issue here. None of us are upset about titans having a cool thing. We just want it turned off in trials. It is such a small ask.

[quote]There are plenty of hoodless capes.[/quote] Never said there wasn't. The difference there is that a titan, even with a cape and regardless of gender, still looks like a titan. How long until people start complaining about hunters trying to look like titans? [quote]And brother, I have triple the flawlesses you do. I have absolutely no need to ego that hard.[/quote] Am I supposed to care? I play when I want something, and once I get it, I don't need to keep playing it. If I get the roll I want for something, I have no reason to play it anymore. Just because you want to keep playing a barely updated mode for gear that changes, at most, once a year doesn't mean I need to. [quote]I'm confident enough in the skill that I have that I can admit when I've lost to someone because they were simply a better player. That's not the issue here, and you're the only person trying to make that the issue here.[/quote] Doesn't seem that way based on other replies. Seems like more people have pointed out how it's a non-issue or pointless. [quote]None of us are upset about titans having a cool thing. We just want it turned off in trials. It is such a small ask.[/quote] Except it doesn't need to be turned off, and it's not a small ask because we all know that if something like this got changed then it would lead to more and more demands up until the point of someone just demanding that everyone look the same by default all because they couldn't figure out from the multiple different things that indicate what a person is playing as.

Nice slippery slope fallacy at the end there. You're making this about a culture war between the classes that frankly just doesn't exist beyond these forums. I'm not asking for titans to be summarily executed and displayed in the streets for my entertainment, I'm asking that this one thing, that removes some clarity on the class you're fighting, be turned off EXCLUSIVELY in trials. Like you're just being a jerk. There's not really anything else to say about it here.

[quote]Nice slippery slope fallacy at the end there. [/quote] Not really when it's how this community constantly does things. Look at the exotic class items, for example. Instead of people just doing the easy mission to get them, there were people constantly whining about for months, so bungie made it so they could grind a lot longer and get them from an event. Then, after that event, those same people who either still didn't get them or didn't like how they couldn't attune for the perks immediately started demanding that they be given the ability to attune or yet another way to get them. That's how this community has always been. Ask for one thing until they get it and then immediately start demanding more right after. [quote]You're making this about a culture war between the classes that frankly just doesn't exist beyond these forums.[/quote] Except I'm not. All I've done is state how it's a pointless change and isn't something that matters at all. [quote]I'm not asking for titans to be summarily executed and displayed in the streets for my entertainment, I'm asking that this one thing, that removes some clarity on the class you're fighting, be turned off EXCLUSIVELY in trials.[/quote] It doesn't need to be removed. Especially when everyone is shown what they look like and what class they are playing at the beginning of the match. Then there's also the fact that you can see which classes are on the enemy team simply by looking at the super icons at the top of the screen, which also tells you who is alive or not. Ultimately, it's not my decision to make, and I highly doubt bungie will be making that change. [quote]Like you're just being a jerk. There's not really anything else to say about it here.[/quote] It's not being a jerk to point out how pointless and needless changes aren't something bungie should care about or anyone else for that matter.

[quote] Not really when it's how this community constantly does things. [/quote] [spoiler]hey, quick secret[/spoiler] [spoiler]I'm not the community[/spoiler] [spoiler]I'm me, an individual capable of my own thoughts and feelings[/spoiler] [spoiler]You keep proving to me that you are judging the merit of my arguments based on the thoughts and opinions of people who aren't me[/spoiler] [spoiler]Until you are capable of judging people as individuals instead of as part of a group you are going to continue having this problem. This is flat out prejudiced judgement.[/spoiler]

[quote]hey, quick secret I'm not the community I'm me, an individual capable of my own thoughts and feelings[/quote] Are you not a part of this community? Are you not making a demand that something be changed? Sounds like you're doing the exact thing I said people of this community tend to do. [quote] You keep proving to me that you are judging the merit of my arguments based on the thoughts and opinions of people who aren't me[/quote] It's almost like when someone's seen the same argument with just a few words swapped out for whatever it is the person is demanding be changed so many times that why wouldn't someone judge the same argument being used yet again the same way? [quote]Until you are capable of judging people as individuals instead of as part of a group you are going to continue having this problem. This is flat out prejudiced judgement.[/quote] If people stopped doing the same thing and then acting the same exact way when someone doesn't agree with them, then they wouldn't be judged the same.

Everything you just said applies to yourself doubly. I'm not the one who disagreed with you and then came to throw out insults. You did that. There could have been an effort to have a discussion, but your prejudiced view towards people who are members of this community, and towards hunters, has made that impossible now. I am a part of this community, but no community is a monolith. People are capable of being different from eachother. This thing you're doing, where you assume peoples positions and opinions due to certain details about them, is called stereotyping. Most people learn about it in elementary school.

That's all he does lol. Insulting people on this forum is his life lol. I think he secretly wants Bungie to make him mod with powers to ban people he disagree with, which would only leave him and a few others on this forum lol.

[quote]That's all he does lol. Insulting people on this forum is his life lol. I think he secretly wants Bungie to make him mod with powers to ban people he disagree with, which would only leave him and a few others on this forum lol.[/quote] Ah. I see you popped up yet again just to keep crying like you have been for the past months. It's gotta be about a half a year by now, and yet you're still here crying. I also don't give a f*ck about being a mod. Why would I want to be a mod for a group of whiny b*tches who can't figure out that if they don't like what someone says, they can either ignore it or just block them? Just keep on proving me right about how all you do is stalk me around just to jump in and cry about things all the time.

You're responding to my post that was not a reply to yours lol. You reply to every post on this forum lol, of course i'm bound to come across one of your posts lol. Please do reply with your broken records replies lol.

Its just not that simple man. In a perfect world where you're under no stress, yes you can identify specific players, but trials is too fast and too high intensity for that to always be possible. More importantly, this is a very significant break to the characters sillhouette. This is a design principle older than destiny by a large degree, in a pvp game where your character matters the sillhouette needs to be identifiable without any other features, thats what makes it possible to make snap judgements on your opponent without prior knowledge. Thats critically important to have in a class based game. This cape has destroyed that. And no, the appearance throwing you off doesnt necessarily mean you were gonna lose that fight before. Is it my fault if I see someone with a cape, assume their only significant close range option is dodging, and then die because oops, that was actually a titan with a shoulder charge that can one shot you? I'd argue no. Are the scenarios where this will actually decide the outcome of a fight few and far between? Sure. But it shouldnt be deciding the outcome of a fight at all. Especially not with the hundred dollar pricetag attached to it. Its indefensible.

[quote]Its just not that simple man.[/quote] It is that simple. [quote]In a perfect world where you're under no stress, yes you can identify specific players, but trials is too fast and too high intensity for that to always be possible.[/quote] For what to be possible? To pay attention when they show you each individual person on the enemy team to figure out who is using what and what their appearance is? [quote]More importantly, this is a very significant break to the characters sillhouette. This is a design principle older than destiny by a large degree, in a pvp game where your character matters the sillhouette needs to be identifiable without any other features, thats what makes it possible to make snap judgements on your opponent without prior knowledge. Thats critically important to have in a class based game. This cape has destroyed that.[/quote] If someone playing a specific class can make or break, if you beat them or not, then you weren't going to beat them anyway. From what I've seen and heard, no one but you is having this issue of figuring out that a titan wearing Darth Vader armor is still a titan, even with a cape. [quote]And no, the appearance throwing you off doesnt necessarily mean you were gonna lose that fight before.[/quote] That seems to be what you're implying. [quote]Is it my fault if I see someone with a cape, assume their only significant close range option is dodging, and then die because oops, that was actually a titan with a shoulder charge that can one shot you? I'd argue no.[/quote] Yes, that is your fault. Hunters have the slide melee, and if anyone is rushing right at you, why would you assume their first response is to dodge and run away instead? [quote]Are the scenarios where this will actually decide the outcome of a fight few and far between? Sure.[/quote] So then why should bungie bother changing something if it seems to only be affecting you and rarely happens at that? [quote]But it shouldnt be deciding the outcome of a fight at all. Especially not with the hundred dollar pricetag attached to it. Its indefensible.[/quote] It's not deciding the outcome. You, as the player, are deciding the outcome. It's not bungie's or anyone else's responsibility to care about how you have the inability to figure out what class someone is when shown the class before the match or when said person is running directly at you.

I'd say this is like talking to a brick wall but that would be more productive. Look, I hate bringing stats into the discussion, because its rarely ever relevant, but you're barely breaking top 50% in trials man. It makes sense you wouldnt think this is an issue because in your case, you actually [i]would[/i] lose regardless of what class they are. You simply are not playing at the skill level where that quick distinction matters. And i'm not the only one complaining about this. I've seen people in several other threads making the same complaints, and theres more than a couple in this one if you bothered to look.

[quote]I'd say this is like talking to a brick wall but that would be more productive.[/quote] Am I supposed to care? [quote]Look, I hate bringing stats into the discussion, because its rarely ever relevant, but you're barely breaking top 50% in trials man.[/quote] Stats mean f*ck all in this matter. If you can't figure out what someone else's class is, then that's your own fault. Also, maybe don't act like you so much better at pvp when you're barely positive in first place, and that's while you crutch on most overpowered class while running around with a shotgun. [quote]It makes sense you wouldnt think this is an issue because in your case, you actually [i]would[/i] lose regardless of what class they are. You simply are not playing at the skill level where that quick distinction matters.[/quote] Says the person crying about how you can't tell the difference between an obvious titan and other classes. You also do understand that with your "skill" level and the small difference in kd between us, you're matching the same exact people that I would be. [quote]And i'm not the only one complaining about this. I've seen people in several other threads making the same complaints, and theres more than a couple in this one if you bothered to look.[/quote] Your post is the only one I've seen anywhere on here, and it doesn't matter if a few other people agree with you. Still, it doesn't change the fact that it's a non-issue and a personal problem, which isn't something bungie or anyone else needs to care about.

I'm sorry to say this, but no, it simply is not a skill issue. They have effectively given titans a hunter disguise kit. My eyes can work perfectly fine and still be deceived by this if people are using it properly. The stats do matter in this case. You are at top 49% in trials, barely breaking the top half of the playerbase, I'm top 36%, almost breaking into the top third. That is a significant difference. Beyond that, you can check my most used weapons on most sites, the shotgun setup I had on this last weekend was because the scout rifle shotgun pairing was better for widow's court. My favored weapons, and the ones I have the most trials kills with, are necrochasm and beloved. Try and tell me that necrochasm is a crutch. I'll wait while you formulate some bullshit. And yeah, when you aren't playing at a higher level, it won't matter if a good player is rushing at you with any given class. But when you can actually match them blow for blow, it's important to know exactly what you are looking at. ANY obscurement to that is a significant disadvantage when both players are on even terms. I just simply don't get why you're being so defensive over this. This isn't me saying "titans should have nothing cool and this cape should be removed from the game" I'm just saying that it's not good for the overall health of pvp, and that the interaction which allows the cape to be added should probably be turned off in trials. The same way 3-peaking with emotes was. 3 peaking was, admittedly, a much bigger issue than this, but that doesn't mean this isn't one.

[quote]I'm sorry to say this, but no, it simply is not a skill issue. They have effectively given titans a hunter disguise kit. My eyes can work perfectly fine and still be deceived by this if people are using it properly.[/quote] It still doesn't change the fact that if they are close enough for it to be an issue, then it doesn't matter. You main a hunter, the pvp class, and have the ability to use any weapon to counter a rushing titan that everyone else can, then why doesn't it matter if you can't tell in split second that a titan is a titan. [quote]The stats do matter in this case. You are at top 49% in trials, barely breaking the top half of the playerbase, I'm top 36%, almost breaking into the top third. That is a significant difference. [/quote] That's not a significant difference. You also play a lot more pvp than I do, and that metric you're using is one that isn't even used by bungie. If we are going to be technical about then overall, with me having an overall higher kd than you, even though it's not by much, would mean something then. [quote]Beyond that, you can check my most used weapons on most sites, the shotgun setup I had on this last weekend was because the scout rifle shotgun pairing was better for widow's court. My favored weapons, and the ones I have the most trials kills with, are necrochasm and beloved.[/quote] Ok and? Good for you for using a fast firing, close-range autorifle, and heavily aim assisted sniper. [quote]Try and tell me that necrochasm is a crutch. I'll wait while you formulate some bullshit.[/quote] I don't need to. You're still a crutch hunter player. It's always the hunters that complain when titans or warlocks ever get something more useful than them. But now, to complain that titans have a cape that makes them barely resemble a hunter while still looking like a titan is a new low. [quote]And yeah, when you aren't playing at a higher level, it won't matter if a good player is rushing at you with any given class. But when you can actually match them blow for blow, it's important to know exactly what you are looking at. ANY obscurement to that is a significant disadvantage when both players are on even terms.[/quote] Are we really acting like being barely positive and a meaningless elo somehow means you're playing the top tier players? I can definitely say my elo used to be much higher up until I all but quit touching pvp in destiny when there are much better pvp games to play. [quote]I just simply don't get why you're being so defensive over this. This isn't me saying "titans should have nothing cool and this cape should be removed from the game"[/quote] No, it's more pointless changes being demanded for the second least updated mode in the game all because a cosmetic item that isn't really an issue for anyone other than a small few. Hunters still make a majority of the pvp playerbase, so the amount of times one would even run into this is already small. [quote]I'm just saying that it's not good for the overall health of pvp, and that the interaction which allows the cape to be added should probably be turned off in trials. The same way 3-peaking with emotes was. 3 peaking was, admittedly, a much bigger issue than this, but that doesn't mean this isn't one.[/quote] The overall health of pvp has been on life support for years now. Why do you think it's takes years just to get new maps, let alone new modes added? 3 peaking gave an actual incentive and advantage to doing it. A titan with a cape provides no real advantage for anyone.

Ok so, here's what I'm getting. You have some vendetta against hunters, presumably because you've gotten your -blam!- handed to you a few too many times in pvp, and you're taking it out on me. Step back for a moment and stop thinking that you're talking to a "hunter" and start thinking that you're talking to a "person" There is a difference. This is one of the most aggressively prejudiced posts I have ever read on this site. Every class has crutches in pvp. I play hunter because I've been playing hunter since destiny 1. I enjoy my funny guy that has a cape and a golden gun. I frankly don't think I deserve this level of harassment for that, and that is what this is. You've dropped all pretense about this being over anything other than hating hunters. You can try and backpedal that now but it's blatantly obvious. I don't come here and make this about how I hate titans, or about how warlocks deserve to be burned at the stake, you come into my post to complain about hunters and berate people over their favored choice of class, and make it as if the hunters are somehow the problem. Like genuinely, what the hell do you think you're doing? You're getting heated over pointless internet beef. And all you're doing is proving me right, if you are at the point where you genuinely think hunters are the "pvp" class, that tells me the difference between our skills is a lot more significant than you think it is. Every class has overpowered crutch options in pvp. The discussion shouldn't ever be about "this class is op and deserves to be nerfed," it should be "this option that this class has is op and should be nerfed."

[quote]Ok so, here's what I'm getting. You have some vendetta against hunters, presumably because you've gotten your -blam!- handed to you a few too many times in pvp, and you're taking it out on me.[/quote] I have no vendetta against hunters. It's common knowledge that hunters are the most used, most consistently overpowered class in pvp. Hell, my hunter is my second most used class in pvp, and has I higher win rate than my main. It's just so funny how anytime a class that isn't hunters gets something, be it actually effective or simply a better cosmetic, there's always a hunter main there to complain about it. [quote]Step back for a moment and stop thinking that you're talking to a "hunter" and start thinking that you're talking to a "person"[/quote] That doesn't change that it's still a non-issue and doesn't need to be changed just because a small group has an issue with seeing the difference between a titan and a hunter. [quote]There is a difference. This is one of the most aggressively prejudiced posts I have ever read on this site.[/quote] I've seen much worse. Let's just look back a few months and see all the posts demanding that the titans be nerfed into the ground just because they had an easily counterable barricade that ruined the playstyle of many of the hunters, who make up the majority of the pvp playerbase. [quote]Every class has crutches in pvp. I play hunter because I've been playing hunter since destiny 1. I enjoy my funny guy that has a cape and a golden gun. I frankly don't think I deserve this level of harassment for that, and that is what this is.[/quote] It's not harassment when you fully made the choice to engage on your own. I also never said the other classes didn't have their own crutches. The difference is that theirs usually get nerfed with a week to a month, sometimes less. Hunters, on the other hand, remain with their's either to this day or they get it for a full year before it gets even touched at all. Just look at smoke grenades. They caused people to have reduced vision, reduced movement and aiming speed, did tick damage, and they even made it so someone was weakened on top of all that. The amount of posts of hunter mains just whining about how their jack of all trades melee ability was being limited to 2 of those says enough. [quote]You've dropped all pretense about this being over anything other than hating hunters. You can try and backpedal that now but it's blatantly obvious.[/quote] I don't need to back pedal. I don't care if everyone knows that I despise hunters and hunter mains. It doesn't change the fact that demanding a useless change over a cosmetic is a waste of time and pointless to do. [quote]I don't come here and make this about how I hate titans, or about how warlocks deserve to be burned at the stake, you come into my post to complain about hunters and berate people over their favored choice of class, and make it as if the hunters are somehow the problem.[/quote] Says the person trying to burn titans at the stake over them having a cape. I also don't care what anyone plays as. It's when people start demanding pointless changes to other classes just because you don't like them or how they look that's the issue. I may not like hunters in pvp, but I have never once made a post or advocated for them to be nerfed into the ground. I can definitely say I've seen countless posts of hunters, on the other hand, making posts demanding for titans and warlocks to be nerfed and even in some cases, all but fully destroyed in pvp. [quote]Like genuinely, what the hell do you think you're doing? You're getting heated over pointless internet beef. And all you're doing is proving me right, if you are at the point where you genuinely think hunters are the "pvp" class, that tells me the difference between our skills is a lot more significant than you think it is. [/quote] I'm getting heated? I simply stated how it's really not an issue for Titans to have a single cape, and now you're out here telling me that I'm harassing you or how I'm on some sort of witch hunt. Just for future reference. If you're making the conscious choice to keep responding, then that's not harassment. Harassment would be if I followed you to other posts or spammed you with private messages. [quote]Every class has overpowered crutch options in pvp. The discussion shouldn't ever be about "this class is op and deserves to be nerfed," it should be "this option that this class has is op and should be nerfed."[/quote] It's just that 1 of those classes takes much longer to get anything nerfed than others, and even then, whatever got nerfed is still viable for them. The other 2, however usual, end up with the nerfs making whatever it was either pointless to use or significantly more situational to use instead. Just look at titans consecration and the warlocks arc slide melee. Both of them were great, all be it overpowered, but then they got nerfed, and most people either dropped using them or the amount significantly slowed down. Now throw in any hunter ability that's been nerfed in the past year and look at how all of them are still being used by a majority of the hunters.

You can say all this -blam!- dude, but that doesn't change that you're being an -blam!-. Like, somewhat predictably, you tone it way tf down in your subsequent response, but you were very clearly taking out frustrations on me in your last reply. Like, you can try and pretend but you just lost it on me. In a way that does not show a reasonable person. Beyond that, "common knowledge" and "reality" don't mean the same thing. Titans and warlocks have had plenty of things that don't get nerfed for way longer than they deserve, and hunters have had plenty of things that get nerfed into oblivion immediately. I frankly don't have the patience with you to go and bring up the list, because this is the easiest to counter example of class bias I see regularly. The only reason you think that is because you play up the hunters and play down the other classes. The reason it's "common knowledge" that hunters are the most popular and powerful pvp class is because they're the most common class overall. We have strong stuff, yes, but that's not what makes us the most popular class. We're the most popular class in pvp because there are simply more people playing hunter. There are times, of course, where hunters are a bit overrepresented because we have a thing or two that's strong up until it gets nerfed, but that happens to everyone.