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2/5/2025 1:28:16 PM
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The difference with the Health change and a mobility change is that going slow is fun for NO ONE. The health Change encourages players to approach the game differently, and because they give us 3 times the usual amount of health I think it’s a equal buff to nerf ratio
People are complaining about Artificial difficulty with the champions, and having to use Anti Champion mods, or having to use specific weapons because of Oscillation or because they are not overcharged as a bad thing, yet when Bungie introduces a simple change to the game that alters our approach by rebalancing how things work, people don’t like that.
The issue with Artifical difficulty is that it doesn’t change the way we approach the game, rather, it forces us to play a specific set of options within the game, so nothing is changing except for the game becoming more tedious. This actually alters our approach. We have to watch our health now. We can’t just run away and hide, cause health won’t recover. This actually helps more aggressive builds, but doesn’t hurt the long range Andy’s. The way I see it, this is a good change and should be implemented into Patrols along with everything that the Nether and Derelict Leviathan did. Oh, and add Difficulty scaling or Private Modes and what not to the Patrols.
English
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Also, regarding your sentence "...going slow is fun for NO ONE". So, what you are in effect saying is that it is OK that Bungie picked RECOVERY - because only some of us might not be having fun (from comments I get the feeling a lot of us). Sounds selfish to me. And funny enough - many have mentioned that it is actually slowing us down - Ironic.
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GMs and Raids aren’t fun for everyone. Neither is patrol. Neither is PvP or PvE respectively. Nor Gambit. Yet each activity does have a section of diehard fans and even casual fans. Sure, Recovery is a much more intrinsic trait and hard boiled into the game, but at that same time, ITS A MODIFIER IN A SINGLE ACTIVITY THAT DOESNT AFFECT THE OVERARCHING META OF THE GAME. You don’t have to like the Nether, but don’t call me selfish for pointing out the fact that going slow is fun for no one. On top of that, when I said Slow, I meant cumbersome. Not slow as in having to actually approach the game thoughtfully and take more time doing something. I mean actual movement speed, which you yourself suggested get nerfed next. That was very, VERY disingenuous. You are purposely misrepresenting a statement from other players, and trying to trick me up.
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Just so you know, some raids & dungeons already do have nerfed mobility worked into the mechanics, so whatever point you think you’re making, its null. Things like weight of darkness, torn between realms, carrying nuclear cores… it all inhibits mobility & jumping, and/or blocks your ability to grapple or shoot enemies… and still, some us enjoy the challenge. You dont speak for all of us when you say “slow is fun for no one”.
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One encounter of a couple specific events. Would you want to play the game like that. In those specific settings, you’re either being punished for dining something poorly or incorrectly, or it’s worked into the greater mechanic to add to the difficulty. But would you want to play at that speed, with that mobility and movement? No, you wouldn’t. No one would. You are being disingenuous.
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Nonsense it is far more intricate than you think. Let me explain examples. Lorelei combined with my aspect and fragments does TWO things. It creates a sunspot which is supposed to take my health back to 100% while in the sunspot and it also blocks any more damage. NOW it does not work. My hunter the same. Built on invisibility - when I take damage, I go invisible in order to regenerate health. Now the hunter will simply die. They may as well remove the exotic and many others from the game if this is the way the rest of the season is planned. Those are just two simple examples which already negate INTRINSIC INTGEGRAL parts of gameplay and character build which are worthless now - sunspots, invisibility and everything connected to them. Never mind the endless stuff connected to a Warlocks HEALING rift. It says HEALING; thus it must heal. Otherwise remove it from the game.
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One, the healing is currently bugged. You can’t say that the activity is bad when the healing is not working as intended. Two, Invisibility is still potent. It gives you much needed breathing room, albeit, the build I use employs Lightning Surge, Synthos, and Assassin, so I’m constantly in the fray and constantly picking up healing orbs. Thirdly, Bungies intention is to make Health a resource. You can regen it, but it’s going to be slow and arduous and not as effective in active combat. Instead, they want you to either stay the hell away and plink plink plink with a scout rifle (Boring but effective for certain encounters) or be in the middle of combat wrecking everything’s -blam!-. If you are killing things fast enough, Healing Orbs will spawn. If you are not, the issue isn’t health regen or the total health you have, as you are going to die anyways. Normal health or not. Lorely is good because it supports active gameplay, but using it defensively nowadays is a horrible idea as if you don’t shred through adds, they will shred through your health and regen. This doesn’t change that, as you are still needing to shred through adds. The sunspots provided will be less useful sure, but there are always going to be meta and non meta options in an activity. You don’t take Cryostasia into a GM and expect it to do well. That’s simply not an option. The two “intrinsic gameplay” tools you suggested are Exotics, not Aspects, not Mechanics I. The base game, hell, not even abilities. It’s not intrinsic to everyone. I’m not saying they should be useless, but again, they are only useless because of a bug. Not because Bungie intended them that way. I’m not trying to defend Bungie here, but I will defend the activity because I like it. The fact that healing is bugged in the first place is ridiculous and needs to be fixed asap.
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Did you not read a word I said. Lorely doesn’t need adds sure, but it meant to be used in an aggressive environment. Not defensively. As it stands, Resto 1 and 2 do not regen health fast enough for you to just stand in the middle of a bunch of adds and take continuous damage. They will shred through you. Thus, Lorely is best suited for Aggressive environments where it can keep you from dying while you slay out. It acts like a safety net.
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As it used to be before - the perfect place for Lorelei and restoration was amongst a bunch of adds. Just use the hammer to add a bit of cure and Presto you are perfect. And don't move out of the sunspot. Now none of it works.
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Taken from a tweet from Bungie [quote]Additionally, we are aware that many healing-centric builds are difficult to see or feel with Guardian health being increased by 200%. Overall, the health bar contains 3x your normal health values, so healing feels fairly low and slow! We're looking to take a balance pass quickly and are targeting a patch as early as next week to address these issues. Stay tuned for updates.[/quote] Doesn’t outright say it’s a bug, but the fact that the healing is doing less than intended, on top of the fact that Bungie is planning on patching it, suggests that Healing was either bugged, or accidentally lowered below intention.
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I do not believe that. Yesterday I tested Lorelei extensively. Sat in my emote chair with health in critical for half an hour. Lorelei is designed for that. It immediately procs health regen. The red bar moves up, then stops and Lorelei procs again and again and again with restoration. My health bar never moved above the critical reading. And so the Boss and myself sat looking at each other. Boring. They purposely blocked recovery - only explanation.
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BarStoolにより編集済み: 2/5/2025 3:42:41 PMI SAID IT WAS BUGGED, DIDNT I? Even by your own logic, it has to be bugged, because bungie intended for it to actually heal. And you know what, let me add a little thing. [quote]With the release of the Nether activity within the Dreadnaught, we're looking to treat health as a resource that players need to monitor throughout gameplay. At this time, healing-centric builds and options (Weapon perks, Exotics, and Abilities) [b][u]are not working as we'd intended.[/u][/b][/quote] The first half of the post. I didn’t deem it important or pertinent but maybe it was
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Precisely - therefore my very first post contained this (without having read the addendum you just posted). "You blocked it. Why? Why? There are endless permutations of mods, exotics, etc. that interact with the recovery stat. They are now all worthless. Again - Why did you even think of this?" Now your post make me ask a further question: So, Bungie when did you actually decide that it "does not work as we'd intended". On day one when Destiny 1 dropped, Three years ago. A year ago? But, for all these years you provided us with all the goodies (which wasn't that simple to use btw. It still took a lot of experimentation for me as a player to slot it all together - and my builds can still get better - I Do NOT follow streamers). You provided a good example earlier. Champions. I do not like them because they limit the weapons I can carry or use. But at least I did not have to FORFEIT my entire build to be able to stun a barrier champ. That is the way they should be thinking. They should be adding on - not subtracting.
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BarStoolにより編集済み: 2/6/2025 12:50:59 PM[quote]Now your post make me ask a further question: So, Bungie when did you actually decide that it "does not work as we'd intended".[/quote] This is very easy to answer. The decided that Healing isn’t working as intended in the Nether when the Nether came out. This is just a dumb question. [quote]On day one when Destiny 1 dropped, Three years ago. A year ago?[/quote] What? What are you even talking about. Recovery isn’t broken in the base game. I don’t know what you’re talking about here. This might be “simple English” like you claim, but it has no sense of writing composition. It is genuinely confusing, when the topic we are talking about is an activity that dropped two days ago. [quote]But, for all these years you provided us with all the goodies[/quote] Read what I have said before. Certain activities are going to have specific options that are meta within that activity. On a large scale, this can be seen with the distinction between PvP and PvE weapons. On smaller scales, this can be seen with niche picks that are super good for 1 specific encounter or role. Current healing options in the base game are not going to be the most meta and that’s fine because it’s not like Bungie is restricting you to one playstyle. Instead of closing off every option to force you to use one, the are instead closing off one option to force you to use anything else. Get over it [quote] (which wasn't that simple to use btw. It still took a lot of experimentation for me as a player to slot it all together - and my builds can still get better - I Do NOT follow streamers). [/quote] So? I make my own builds. It’s difficult, but not the hardest thing ever. Hell, I made a pretty nutty Sunbracers build that doesn’t make use of Heat Rises, forgoing it for Icarus Dash, which I prefer to use. Why is this pertinent to the conversation?
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They aren’t subtracting! They changed the way something worked. Sure, healing builds are not the most effective right now, but again, healing isn’t working the intended way it’s suppose to within the Nether. I don’t know what you are going on about in the second paragraph. Secondly, and I’ve either said this too you are to another person ITS ONE FUDGING ACTIVITY. Not the entire game. No where near the entire game. You are complaining about a change in a single activity like it ruins the entire game. Thirdly, you may have to alter your entire build for the Nether, but this game is a game worth trying multiple builds all the time. You wanna play SunBreaker Titan. There are offensive builds for it that don’t rely on Healing. You wanna play Arclock. Use Vesper of Radius and an Empowering rift. You having difficulty with the adds. Stasislock, Invis Hunter, and Strand Titan. What I don’t get is why you are so upset about your specific choice not being useful in that specific segment of the game. You don’t go into PvP thinking Anarchy is going to be good. You don’t go into OvE expecting Cryostasia to be the best option. You are not making any sense with this. Your complaint is that Healing doesn’t work. I tell you it’s glitched You don’t believe me. I prove you wrong You say “Still not going to be as effective” and I say, “it’s still going to have use, albeit reduced” You are arguing in circles here. Healing is bugged. It’s going to be fixed. It will be weaker than before. It’s only in one activity. It’s GOING TO BE FINE. Now shut up and just play the damn game.
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Now, now young person. Don't tell me to shut up. It Ain't good manners. Re: Paragraph two. If you don't understand it, then not my fault. It was stated in simple English. Yes: They are subtracting - we are MINUS recovery. Please note before you go to Nether next time: It clearly states (in blue Italics) that recovery is removed. It is NOT a bug. My concern is what this holds for the future and the rest of this season. This is how adding would work: Our old friend Telesto. After nerfing again and again, they eventually found the answer by adding - better guns, mods, abilities, etc. until Telesto became virtually non-existent (obsolete) in the game. Anyhow, I made a major edit to my original post. Please read it. You will be glad to know I used info YOU provided to come to my final conclusions. Good Luck, Over and OUT.
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RECOVERY AS IN HEALTH REGENERATION ATTACHED TO THE RECOVERY STAT! Not the means by which we have to heal. This means options like Devour and Restoration should work, albeit to a hampered effect as Bungie is intending. Maybe I wasn’t clear about that, or maybe I was so fervent in my argument that I didn’t even think about base recovery as that’s never an issue for me outside of PvP, but still. Secondly, sure, they aren’t subtracting, but they are also adding. We don’t get to recover health outside of options designed to initiate health regeneration (Devour, Restoration, etc), but in term, WE GET 3x THE AMOUNT OF HEALTH WE USUALLY DO. It’s a trade off. Are you so stuck in your own argument that you can’t see that we have 3x the amount of health we usually do. Not subtraction. Not addition either. It’s a trade off.
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Once you and that tormentor boss are stuck alone solo inside his fighting dome (after killing all the adds) there is no way for us to proc full health (no recovery) while he hunts us with his tracking void missiles. The only option is to leave through the front portal and go look for some pots (lol) that drop health. How ridiculous is that. They could give us 10 x health. Every time he hits you it only goes down. Until you run out. After a while he does spawn a few adds, but it remains a stupid way to fight. Sorry you cannot convince me.
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The Tormentor is genuinely easy. Sure, no one likes dying, but if your health is a genuine issue, just nuke yourself and reenter the fight. On top of that, just watch what the Tormentor is doing. He is pretty easy to dodge. If he charging to grab you. Just jump in the air. If he is about to slam, run from where you were standing. Do something other than just continue to shoot. I used a GL, Shotgun, and Choir of One against the Tormentor solo. I only had one and a half precision options, with the One being hyper close range. Choir is only precision when ADSing. The boss still wasn’t that hard. Here is what I recommend. Use a heavy weapon like a GL, Rocket, or LMG on the Shoulders. They take damage normally, and are not resistant to blast Damage like the rest of the boss will be upon second phase. A GL will shred the shoulder pads. Then just run to one side of the field, shoot him a couple times, wait for him to slam (most likely) and run to the other side or better yet, use a high damage close range option that has the ability to hit crits, and shred through his crit spots, before running away when he is about to suppress you. If he does grab you, he doesn’t do much, if any damage at all, at least from what I checked.
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You still seem to do it the difficult way. Never learnt yet that against a tormentor to get on top of a high pillar or statue. He doesn't like coming up. Sometimes he does (then you just jump down - and back up). But not in that room (he cannot jump that high). There are two very high concrete pillars with large flat tops in the center. Get on top of one and you can stay there forever and also damage him. Yet still not the point. It is still ridiculous to use a revive token instead of just simple old normal recovery to get full health.
