Ease of use is not balance.
It’s baffling that we even need to have this conversation in a game with PvP aspirations, yet here we are. In a competitive environment, a less skilled player should not be able to outgun someone demonstrably better purely because their loadout is easier to use. That’s not balance—it’s pandering. Bungie has confused inclusivity with balance, creating a system where meaningful skill is undermined by tools that cater to mediocrity.
The problem isn’t bad players; they’re inevitable. The issue is Destiny actively rewards them for not improving. Instead of fostering growth, Bungie panders to entitlement—handing out low-risk, high-reward tools that do the work for players unwilling to improve. This doesn’t teach better play; it creates a crutch. Worse, it’s intentional. Bungie built this system and refuses to address it.
This failure is most apparent in the ridiculous concept of "power fantasies" in PvP. Sure, in PvE, it’s fun to obliterate AI hordes. But in PvP, power should come from skill. No one should feel unstoppable unless they’ve earned it. Yet, Destiny’s mechanics blur the lines, letting PvE-designed tools dominate competitive environments. This chaos discourages mastery and rewards passivity, undermining the foundation of competitive play.
Then there’s the entitlement. Many players believe they deserve wins regardless of skill and complain about "sweats" rather than accepting the challenge to improve. Ironically, even they want to get better deep down. But Bungie, instead of creating a system that nurtures this, opts for participation-based design. Why reward high-risk, high-reward gameplay when it’s easier to spam grenades or exploit the latest over-tuned exotic? This culture punishes skillful play and drives competitive players away.
Meanwhile, PvE players—accustomed to being the heroes—find themselves humbled in PvP and blame the game instead of adapting. Bungie enables this mindset, fostering a community that expects the game to compensate for their shortcomings. It’s a cycle that drives away competitive players while failing to keep casuals engaged long-term.
Ultimately, Bungie seems unsure of what they want PvP to be: a skill-driven arena or a free-for-all where everyone wins. Games like Dark Souls and Counter-Strike succeed by respecting their audience—if you lose, you improve. Bungie’s unwillingness to commit risks alienating everyone.
If they don’t change course, Destiny’s PvP will become a hollow shell, with no core audience left. Bungie must decide: do they want to build a competitive legacy, or do they want a short-lived participation parade? Time is running out.
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#destiny2
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39 通の返信While controller exists it’s pointless complaining about lack of skill…. People can just plug in a device that does 90% of the aiming for them
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1 返信I don't want halo style pvp I want d2 pvp. I've come to realize that pvp in d2 was designed this way think about it no updates.
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2 通の返信Just like there’s specific reqs for certain jobs such as meeting a minimum physical condition to join the army there should be a minimum skill requirement to work at the bungie pvp team Like I’m not saying 2kds and good players in general know how to balance the pvp sandbox But they cant do a worse job than someone who is actively bad at the thing their balancing
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1 返信The sheer arrogance of thinking you have the right to determine what is skillfull and what is not, what's too easy and what is skillfull You are just another dot in the player engagement graph, and your opinion doesn't matter more than anyone else's I hope they hear you, and buff 600 Autos and SMGs , what you guys really hate more than pulse rifles
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Not saying you don’t have a point, but in terms of improving everyone’s experience in PvP, this has to come after they fix some structural issue like lag, cheating, toxic behaviour… They need a healthy baseline first.
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Dukeにより編集済み: 12/2/2024 5:18:25 PMIs anyone claiming ease of use IS balance? Because I agree there's a few outliers right now that are easy to use and can lead to outgunning better players who aren't using one of those outliers but that's highlighting imbalance, not balance. [quote]The issue is Destiny actively rewards them for not improving. Instead of fostering growth, Bungie panders[/quote] Hugely agree with the above statement, although I'd say they pander to bad players, not to "entitlement." That's a just a meaningless buzz word. They're just trying to get those people able to compete so they don't quit every other match. Nothing to do with being entitled. PvP is already a hollow shell of what it used to be, thanks in part to abilities 3.0, pandering to bad players, and huh-rend-ous (Bungie won't let us spell it correctly) maps/modes. Unfortunately when they pander to the skilled crowd, the bad players just don't play and it makes the entire thing a sweat fest and then the skilled players complain and the cycle repeats itself. Unfortunately the majority of the player base has been caudled to the point that when that stops, they just quit. There's no want to improve or adapt. It's just "the broken gun I abused isn't good anymore so im not playing." Just incredibly sad.
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1 返信You’re not really wrong but this game is wayyyy past the point of improving or having any kind of competitive pvp balance.
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I think you’re right. PvP, just before the Air Efficiency/accuracy changes was a much better place in a lot of ways. There were far more counter options to certain weapons and play styles. There was less emphasis on ease of use abilities and weapons for those that lack the ability to play CQC. Now, pulses and abilities share the majority of issues in PvP. I can’t count the amount of times a Titan has escaped certain death by using their long range abilities. Or negate any damage by hitting that ability button.
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9 通の返信Zodleonにより編集済み: 12/1/2024 9:39:18 PMI didn't generally disagree with what you said, though I'd probably phrase it differently. I think time has already run out tbh. I'm not keeping up with patch notes. What i miss that caused this post?
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In one breath, you're complaining about people using better tools than you and succeeding, then in the next you're talking about entitlement and refusal to improve - which is it? When good players use worse-than-meta loadouts, they do it knowing fully that they have to put extra work in against people using meta items; they do not go in with the mindset that they are statistically better and should win because of that. When you handicap yourself, don't be surprised that winning is harder and blame other people for not handicapping themselves. It's fine to have frustrations at the existence of low-risk high-reward items and any significant differences in power between items, but you can't really fault players for using what's best in modes that highly encourage you to win. You've used primarily Hand Cannons and Shotguns as a Hunter, I'm sure many people would bemoan those as crutches, or would you defend them as high-skill despite the fact they have been objectively the best for most of the last 7 years?
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Ease of use is actually a form of balancing, it's used in plenty of games, even more competitive ones than Destiny. The issue is when the weapons that are higher on ease of use don't have a significant enough drop in peak effectiveness over the ones that have a low ease of use. Things that are harder to use should be better in the hands of a skilled player. Generally, that is the case. There are exceptions, but with how many weapons, abilities, exotics, subclasses, fragments, aspects, and any other number of factors are in this game, it's not always gonna be perfect.
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A_moにより編集済み: 12/1/2024 2:26:13 PMSome things being easier to use is a better form of balancing than the actual balancing that makes things look so much easier to use. When everyone has the same environmental conditions there is no excuse. I couldn't care less if new lights get mythoclast for Christmas as long as my shizz is consistent. If I'm losing to someone using an ease of use weapon and that person is worse than me at the game and our environmental conditions are the same that's on me. The other thing is that the game is almost out welfare distribution options so no one can say they didn't try if the game ever has to become more real. And it would be cool to for Bungie PvP fans to finally be able to pick up where we left off. Sbmm just doesn't mix that well with this game and that's one of the reasons why a lot of us play it.
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Kiro - 13により編集済み: 12/1/2024 9:31:30 PMThere is something to players more often looking for tools to improve their effectiveness in PvP, rather then looking for what they could have done different/better to improve their effectiveness.
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3 通の返信The best part is that bungie themselves hate players improving because they just spit in your face by giving burgers low skill options that massively inflate their effectiveness by handing out free kills.