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Destiny 2

Destiny 2 について話し合おう
Erafractureにより編集済み: 6/22/2023 5:31:38 AM
8

Witness = Winnower? Is Destiny 2 just a Time Loop?

It’s time to come back to this topic. We finally have our answers. Traveler is the Gardener, and the Witness is not the Winnower, but rather, a collective consciousness of a civilisation that wants to reshape all of reality. No more Ulan-Tan theory. We aren’t dealing with a two-sided god. Both are completely different, and the veil and gardener are older than the civilisation of darkness that became the Witness. But… There are…questions. Questions that don’t add up. Look back at the Unveiling lore book. The dialogue. I’ll be honest. I’ve been studying the Unveiling lore book for a while, and I’m having some doubts. Well, not doubts. Just some mixups. Let me go through it. One by one. This will be a long one, so get your tinfoil hats on because it’s probing time. Let’s start by asking this question: Is the Ulan-Tan theory still right? Well, of course not. The cutscene proves….not much. It gives us a big answer: the origins of the Witness. But…what about the two primordial forces that are supposed to make up light and dark? Gardener and Winnower? The Flower Game? What about the Unveiling lore book? After studying this book with new and open eyes, I’m conflicted. Things don’t add up. Not anymore. So let’s take this one step at a time. The Witness is a culmination of a civilisation that chose to merge themselves into a harbinger of the final shape. They did this because they wanted to rid the universe and everything in it, and start clean once more. They wanted to rid the universe of suffering and give life purpose and meaning. The Witness doesn’t believe that life has meaning. It believes the Light is destructive and ruins that which it touches. In Life, there is only death. Enough Life. Enough Death. But what makes no sense is that the Unveiling lore book doesn’t hold this. And yet it does! It’s so clear yet so muddled that it makes my head spin. Okay, if we take the words of the Unveiling from the perspective of the Witness, then it could make sense. Except the whole Flower Game part, it could make sense. But if we look at it through the eyes of the Winnower, not the Witness, we see a glimpse of something completely unusual. The Winnower and the Gardener are not beings, they are…constructs. Constructs made to help us see the universe of Destiny. The traveler is the gardener, right? What is the Winnower? Well, the only guess is that the Winnower is…what is the Winnower? We get the Traveler, aka Gardener. We get the veil, aka the link between the traveler and a new world. Where’s the Winnower??? The Winnower has to be the Witness. It’s the only conclusion I can make. Ahh, but it conflicts so much with my theories…the dark future, primordial beings, etc. If the Witness is the Winnower, then why is it trying to renew the Universe, and reshape it into something with meaning, without suffering? It defies the logic. And we know that the Unveiling goes by the sword logic. Prove your worth by being the last one standing. But…the theories are being tangled. It doesn’t make any sense. Well, it does. I just need to put them in the right order. So let’s make a label. Traveler: Gardener. Winnower: Maybe the Witness. Witness: Definitely a civilisation. Unveiling: a book from the perspective of either the Witness or the Winnower. Ulan-Tan: Proven wrong. Wait…as I was reading the Unveiling, a thought came to my mind. One that may change everything. Okay. For a while, I was confused about how the Dark Future lore book came into play here. But here is what I think happened. I’m going to become insane by the end of this. Okay, let’s take it step by step. Civilization becomes the Witness. It goes after the traveler. Future goes, and the Traveler loses. In the Dark Future lore book, the Traveler reset time as soon as the pyramids came to it. It RESET TIME. And this, the civilisation became the Witness once more. And the loss happens. Time and time again. And the vex win each time until the guardians and the hive come into play. And the last city loses. Over and over again. What if… the Unveiling lore book was from the lens of both the Witness and the Winnower? Hear me out. This’ll sound kinda insane. What if the Witness retains its memories? What if it’s consciousness goes beyond time and space? Every reset that happens, it all happens in this universe. Our universe. Where physics causes gravity to be a sculptor of our universe. EVERY TIME. What if our universe is the flower game? And the Witness is the Winnower, at least their embodiment of the Winnower? And every time, the game plays differently, until the Gardener says: let me put something unique. Let me put everything on the line. US. The guardian. We are the final resolver of this problem. And we will be the ones to stop the Witness from rewriting time itself. Because we are the embodiment of the traveler. Aren’t we? I know this theory is basically insane. But if you read till the end, I appreciate it greatly. What are your thoughts? Leave them down below and I’ll be sure to read them. Have a great day!!
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#lore #destiny2

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  • The Light Lordにより編集済み: 6/22/2023 11:34:47 PM
    Traveler=actual Gardener The Veil=link back to the Winnower The Veil is the memory of the universe, a physical manifestation of consciousness across existence The Light is the domain of the physical. That’s why the Gardener is the Traveler. It’s a way for the Gardener to physically traverse the Multiverse. The Dark is the domain of non-physical, consciousness. The Veil spawned out of no where and is a physical manifestation of all consciousness, so that includes consciousness dead or alive, or even, NON-PHYSICAL in the first place…something on the OTHER side… In the raid lore, a voice in the dark calls out for meaning and a voice replies saying “I will tell you of a Final Shape.” The Witness’s civilization as we know craved meaning. This is the Winnower replying, which is a non-physical “force” influencing the Darkness inherently… The Winnower is trying to punish the Gardener for what happened in the beginning of time, being the Gardener breaking the rules of the Game, and since it can’t do anything physically being a force of consciousness, it most likely created the Veil out of sheer thought, and looked for the “First Knife” which was the Witness’s civilization. And when that civilization looked into the Veil they learned of the Darkness and the “Truth in the Darkness”, which is the idea of the Final Shape, whispered to them by the Winnower. Perhaps in a future saga there is a way to resurrect the Winnower physically and kill him off for good, kind of like the Dark Lord in DOOM, where we have to resurrect his soul physically to end his ability to influence from the other side. Btw, this all implies the Witness’s civilization is the true dark mirror to the Guardians, and the Witness itself is the dark mirror to Guardians as a whole. The Traveler/Gardener and Veil/Winnower are in a game above us and the Witness.

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    4 通の返信
    • The story is an absolute mess stitched together from the various iterations of the destiny story. It contradicts and makes no sense half the time. Look what they did to Nezcafe.

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    • You wrote this thinking Bungie actually cares to make sense I of their own story. When really they are just writing whatever is passable to get the story over with. This cutscene not being in LF is a complete joke narratively. They absolutely made it up after LF to force some congruency and the illusion that they actually have a story. LF proved very strongly that they don’t

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    • Ulan-Tan is still in play, the premise of his idea was sacrificing the Light to stop the Darkness, due to symmetry. If there isn’t a Winnower, an entity that can be considered separate from the Gardner in some way as the source of Darkness, then that leaves the Gardner as the source of both. That actually forces the Ulan-Tan ending. It was also foreshadowed in the Travelers Vision cutscene. And let’s work that out for a second though: If the Gardner is the sole source, telling us would be a bad idea. How much trust would we of had in it? Would of listened to it or destroyed it? So it wouldn’t be wise. The Ulan-Tan ending is the only way you can end the Dark and Light saga. All lore talking about just one existing shows it’s a calamity. As far as time resets. Dark Future shows it’s only resetting to the post Collapse era. When Cayde became the Hunter Vanguard I believe. Which would mean most of Destiny history is set in stone. It’s only a few decades that gets played with. Unveiling is peculiar. I’ve pointed out how the way it’s written implies the Winnowers speech is actually inner monologue. Past tense speech in first person is supposed to be in quotes. The reason I think it’s two personalities is because the principal they embody has more than one facet. When the Gardner makes herself a law, and the winnower automatically (a small detail that goes unnoticed), what does she say? She is the growth and preservation of complexity. Yet her role and actions are described only growing. The only one who preserves anything is the Winnower. There’s a line of lore I read recently. Something about how you can’t have a Garden without knives, making the knife out to be inevitable. You can’t be a Gardner without holding a knife to trim things. So don’t lose hope. It may not be exact, but I’m certain we have the jist of the ending.

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      12 通の返信
      • I'm no lore scholar, but I think the Witness isn't THE winnower. I think it's trying to become A winnower. I think there's still another "entity" if you will, for lack of a better word that we have yet to see or become involved with.

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      • A simple answer to your unveiling lore book question is who did we get it from? A pyramid ship above a tree of silver wings, a page was broadcasted every so often. We know from WQ that the witness will deceive, lie and manipulate to get its objective done, for the hive it did the god-wave and for us it could have tried the book as a way to paint the gardener (the light) in a negative way is it created the issue in the flower game. The overall point of all this is the source of the information, we know that just because its a lore book it doesn’t mean the info has to necessarily be true (such as the case of the Season of Opulence lore book). We know the pyramids are simply built ships (which are odd since our ghost said it didn’t detect a ship when we first saw them in action)

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      • I'm always down for a good read.

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        • There’s also the drum I’ve been beating since Shadowkeep. The source we have for Unveiling is a Pyramid artifact we took from the Moon. Direct information from the entity in the Darkness, which considering what we’ve learned since was more than likely the WitnessZ Why on Earth would we assume that the book was truthful? Even before Witch Queen, I’ve said that the entity cannot be trusted because it blatantly lied to the Hive. If they ever achieved their version of the Final Shape, they would face extinction rapidly. Unveiling has been potential misleading propaganda from the start. Now it seems to be the deluded mythology of the Witness, an entire species that crafted themselves into a God to impose meaning on existence.

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