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Boreにより編集済み:
3/18/2023 5:35:44 PM
18
[quote]The damage they offer now is so miniscule I can't see any justification for them to remain a special. All they offer is a shield with tickle damage combos.
I honestly don't know how we got to nerfing glaives when, with exception to Winterbite, they were already useless.[/quote]
Glaives have been extremely good before they worked with melee exotics and are still extremely good now.
97.5% DR
Melee damage increase that doesn’t cost ammo
Projectile that has an incredibly good ammo economy.
Perfect weapons to use in a double special loadout.
English
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The only way I can stand Glaives is in 2 special loadouts, but even then it leeches ammo from my other special that actually provides good damage. So to counter that I often just don't fire the glaive and stick to melee. That means I just end up ignoring 2 thirds of the weapon to have (functionally) a primary sword. Glaives just seem terribly balanced on the low end. Even though I agree the melee aspect is okay, that's not all glaives offer. All aspects of the Glaive should be viable. When I say Glaives are bad I mean the value of the weapon's intended function isn't good. Which is the shoot, melee, and shield loop.
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Boreにより編集済み: 3/19/2023 2:26:50 PM[quote]The only way I can stand Glaives is in 2 special loadouts, but even then it leeches ammo from my other special that actually provides good damage. So to counter that I often just don't fire the glaive and stick to melee. That means I just end up ignoring 2 thirds of the weapon to have (functionally) a primary sword. Glaives just seem terribly balanced on the low end. Even though I agree the melee aspect is okay, that's not all glaives offer. All aspects of the Glaive should be viable. When I say Glaives are bad I mean the value of the weapon's intended function isn't good. Which is the shoot, melee, and shield loop.[/quote] Glaive projectile damage is still good damage and has perks to easily buff the damage one it. The ammo economy for it is also very good. You’ll almost never run out of glaive ammo. The melee is also still good damage, especially considering it consumes no ammo. And again, one of the strongest parts of a glaive is the 97.5% damage resistance you gain from blocking. It makes sword block look like a joke. I’d you don’t like glaives, that’s okay. Doesn’t make them bad though.
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It actually does through because the reason I don't like glaives is because their damage is terrible. Glaive projectile damage is equal to about 3 bursts from a base aggressive sidearm. 10k from an aggressive sidearm burst while a Glaive shot does 29k. It's not difficult to see with the RPM which weapon offers better DPS, with the RPMs and base damage values it's basic math. More over for perks the best damage buff a Glaive can get is Unstoppable Force's 20% which is limited to a need to block and take damage. Every aggressive sidearm that isn't sunset gets Vorpal which is also a 20% buff but is unlimited. There's not a single aspect that Glaives offer that aren't beaten by an aggressive sidearm, and that isn't even the stand out to use for comparison.
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[quote]It actually does through because the reason I don't like glaives is because their damage is terrible. Glaive projectile damage is equal to about 3 bursts from a base aggressive sidearm. 10k from an aggressive sidearm burst while a Glaive shot does 29k. It's not difficult to see with the RPM which weapon offers better DPS, with the RPMs and base damage values it's basic math. More over for perks the best damage buff a Glaive can get is Unstoppable Force's 20% which is limited to a need to block and take damage. Every aggressive sidearm that isn't sunset gets Vorpal which is also a 20% buff but is unlimited. There's not a single aspect that Glaives offer that aren't beaten by an aggressive sidearm, and that isn't even the stand out to use for comparison.[/quote] Except their damage is not terrible. For a weapon with their ammo economy, they do good damage. A sidearm does not provide you with a melee buff or a shield with 97.5% damage resistance. Blacking damage with a glaive to get a damage buff is not limiting. If there’s enemies to shoot, you’re going to take damage while blocking. Vorpal only works on bosses and ultras. Neither a sidearm nor a glaive are boss damage weapons. Once again, you can not like glaives, but that does not make them bad. They’re an exceptionally ammo efficient utility weapon.
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The melee damage is about equal to the shot doing 16k a hit at about double the pace. However the glaive melee also replaces your subclass melee so you can't make use of it's effects. Then to mention how absolutely useless the Shield is at anything related to taking down a threat, and in the face of class abilities that already help with survival to a higher degree. Devour, Rift/Well, Phoenix Dive, Invisibility/Dodge, Barricade, Ward of Dawn. You effectively have a weapon that does less damage than a sidearm with less range and only offers as much survivability as a barricade with half the duration. Tell me in what way this weapon is Worth of Taking special ammo
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I'd still have access to my melee abilities that actually stun an unstoppable orge, and I wouldn't be using a primary on a champion past stun because it's a primary which all do terrible damage. It is a testament to how terrible glaive damage is that sidearms do better damage than Glaives
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Except the glaive does better damage. I can kill an ultra cabal in 4 glaive shots which would take 3 full sidearm mags in the new raid. Also...glaives have MUCH more range than sidearms. And you can easily switch off of the glaive to use a charged melee. Also also...glaives are unstoppable stun so you dont need unstoppable melee.
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[quote]The melee damage is about equal to the shot doing 16k a hit at about double the pace. However the glaive melee also replaces your subclass melee so you can't make use of it's effects. Then to mention how absolutely useless the Shield is at anything related to taking down a threat, and in the face of class abilities that already help with survival to a higher degree. Devour, Rift/Well, Phoenix Dive, Invisibility/Dodge, Barricade, Ward of Dawn. You effectively have a weapon that does less damage than a sidearm with less range and only offers as much survivability as a barricade with half the duration. Tell me in what way this weapon is Worth of Taking special ammo[/quote] You can just swap off the glaive when you want to use your charged melee. That’s not an issue. Glaive melee consumes no ammo. Everything you listed provides less dr than the glaive block, even the well and bubble. The duration can also be extended well past anything on your list. Again, glaives are utility weapons with extremely good ammo efficiency. You can dislike them, doesn’t make them bad.
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Barricades have 100% DR, they take the hit and negate the AoE, so not really, and of course the other options offer heals and DR. DR however doesn't equal survivability which is why I specifically stated survivability. You only get DR while blocking, which slows you, and you can only Regen the shield by getting hits with the shot which consumes ammo 5-7 is the average, so the shield doesn't even last 30 seconds. Against any enemy you might need 97 DR against you have almost no offense ability with a glaive. So if you can't defeat an enemy like that with it like Champions and mini bosses, you only prolong your own defeat. Now that said as a Primary that would be fine, but it isn't a primary is it? It's a bottom tier special which does worse damage than many primary weapons that would only leach off of your other specials if you used them.
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[quote]Barricades have 100% DR, they take the hit and negate the AoE, so not really, and of course the other options offer heals and DR. DR however doesn't equal survivability which is why I specifically stated survivability. You only get DR while blocking, which slows you, and you can only Regen the shield by getting hits with the shot which consumes ammo 5-7 is the average, so the shield doesn't even last 30 seconds. Against any enemy you might need 97 DR against you have almost no offense ability with a glaive. So if you can't defeat an enemy like that with it like Champions and mini bosses, you only prolong your own defeat. Now that said as a Primary that would be fine, but it isn't a primary is it? It's a bottom tier special which does worse damage than many primary weapons that would only leach off of your other specials if you used them.[/quote] Barricades do not provide damage resistance. You will take full damage from anything that hits you. Damage resistance is only applied during the placement animation. I’m not sure you’ve ever blocked with a glaive. You’re aware that they have a shield duration stat, right? The shield duration is long unless you tank your shield duration stat. You can also use the new glaive perk to reload while blocking. Your block can last literal minutes if you want it to. It also take 3-4 shots to max out your glaive shield bar, depending on the perks you choose. Again, glaives are extremely ammo efficient utility weapons. You don’t have to like them for them to be good.
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Wow okay I came out with damage numbers you didn't know when you tried to argue that glaives did better damage than sidearms, but they don't do they? Let me ask you something who long doesn't the glave shield last with a full stat?
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[quote]Wow okay I came out with damage numbers you didn't know when you tried to argue that glaives did better damage than sidearms, but they don't do they? Let me ask you something who long doesn't the glave shield last with a full stat?[/quote] Their damage is not relevant. I have no need to test your claims. They’re a utility weapon and not a damage weapon. They do something that no other special can do, which give them no competition in that role. A role that is quite handy for high level endgame content like GMs. I do not have an exact number for the shield duration, nor can any glaive max out their shield duration as of now. I don’t count while blocking and I rarely ever run out of shield energy. I am more than happy to check the number when I am back online though.
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[quote][quote]Wow okay I came out with damage numbers you didn't know when you tried to argue that glaives did better damage than sidearms, but they don't do they? Let me ask you something who long doesn't the glave shield last with a full stat?[/quote] Their damage is not relevant. I have no need to test your claims. They’re a utility weapon and not a damage weapon. They do something that no other special can do, which give them no competition in that role. A role that is quite handy for high level endgame content like GMs. I do not have an exact number for the shield duration, nor can any glaive max out their shield duration as of now. I don’t count while blocking and I rarely ever run out of shield energy. I am more than happy to check the number when I am back online though.[/quote] Oh you don't know, I thought as much. Well I'll tell you full shield with a 100 shield stat offers 15 seconds of actual shield time. Glaive reserve without mods top off at 29 shots and it takes a full mag to top off your shield. That means from full reserve you get 45 seconds of shield time. Barricades last 20 seconds up and Rifts last 15 seconds also and you get both for free in a minute or less. You're trying to make a case for the shield alone when it's comparable to abilities that are free, and takes extra steps to keep activated. Additionally you keep contesting me when you're absolutely in the dark about all of the weapon's capabilities. Well you know what, I'm not. I don't form an opinion until I know the facts. Why? Because an opinion formed for ignorance is a foolish one, and claims not based off facts have no place being said
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Boreにより編集済み: 3/19/2023 4:52:18 PM[quote] Oh you don't know, I thought as much. Well I'll tell you full shield with a 100 shield stat offers 15 seconds of actual shield time. Glaive reserve without mods top off at 29 shots and it takes a full mag to top off your shield. That means from full reserve you get 45 seconds of shield time. Barricades last 20 seconds up and Rifts last 15 seconds also and you get both for free in a minute or less. You're trying to make a case for the shield alone when it's comparable to abilities that are free, and takes extra steps to keep activated. Additionally you keep contesting me when you're absolutely in the dark about all of the weapon's capabilities. Well you know what, I'm not. I don't form an opinion until I know the facts. Why? Because an opinion formed for ignorance is a foolish one, and claims not based off facts have no place being said[/quote] So with replenishing aegis, the glaive block can last literal minutes… You just proved my point, not that you really ever need that unless you’re grabbing an enemies aggro for your team. Also, 29 shots with each shot giving you 1/4 to 1/3(immovable object) of your glaive is longer than 45 seconds… Both barricades and rifts provide zero dr outside of their animations and are far worse for tanking damage. There is no weapon comparable to the shield block outside of swords. Glaives do far better than then when it comes to blocking. And nope, no extra steps to activate the shield. Just shoot the glaive. Once again, glaives are extremely ammo efficient utility weapons. Perfect tool for higher level endgame content.
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Gemini Trashにより編集済み: 3/19/2023 6:03:45 PMI understand words might be hard for you bro, but 45 seconds total reserve. Replenishing Aegis just makes it so you don't have to reload in-between. You don't start out with a shield bud you knock off the top mag from the equation before you do math. I'll walk you though fam don't sweat it. 7 shots forms a full shield charge, a full shield charge lasts 15 seconds. 28- 7= 21, 7 goes into 21 3 times 15³= 45. Shield time total = 45 seconds. Point is glaives do worse than primary damage and the shield is not a redeeming factor the point in all of this content is not to survive the enemy, you're supposed to kill the enemy tool that only offers a limited defense without an attack accomplishes nothing. Unless you mean to get carried through content that is, because that will be the extent of your contribution to the Fireteam
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Boreにより編集済み: 3/19/2023 7:41:15 PM[quote]I understand words might be for you bro, but 45 seconds total reserve. Replenishing Aegis just makes it so you don't have to reload in-between. You don't start out with a shield bud you knock off the top mag from the equation before you do math. I'll walk you though fam don't sweat it. 7 shots forms a full shield charge, a full shield charge lasts 15 seconds. 28- 7= 21, 7 goes into 21 3 times 15³= 45. Shield time total = 45 seconds. Point is glaives do worse than primary damage and the shield is not a redeeming factor the point in all of this content is not to survive the enemy, you're supposed to kill the enemy tool that only offers a limited defense without an attack accomplishes nothing. Unless you mean to get carried through content that is, because that will be the extent of your contribution to the Fireteam[/quote] 7 shots is not a full shield… it takes 4 base and 3 with immovable object. Edit: it is also 3 with the lucent blades mod. If you stack 3, you can get just under half with one shot, essentially maxing out your energy in 2 shots. This also stacks with immovable object, giving little over a half. If you are using immovable object, do not stack more than one lucent blades mod, it does not grant enough more to be worth it. I have my Gm build equipped on my hunter. It’s far from getting carried through content. I use it for my Gm carries that I do every season. Perfect tool to get within finishing range of a champion(safely), often resulting in getting the highest score on the team. Would be more than happy to demonstrate its effectiveness to you. GMs will be up on week 7. Again, extremely ammo efficient utility weapon.
