[quote][b][i]First off, if you are enjoying PvP this season, I'm honestly happy for you. This game's PvP can be really fun so I'm glad you get to enjoy it. And hey, maybe you'll be encouraged enough to give Trials a try now.[/i][/b] But as someone who's on the higher end of the skill spectrum, it feels like my options for a fun/relaxed experience are severely limited. I was kinda becoming ok with the strict SBMM in Control (there ain't no way this is "Loose SBMM" lol). It was sorta fun duking it out with other good players. But the lag is really starting to wear me down. I'm seeing consistent teleporting players game-to-game. Hit reg in general is also noticeably worse compared to other game modes. Now that you add quitter penalties so I can't quit games where players are lagging, or I'm facing stacks, or just generally awful team balancing (which is still just as atrocious as it has ever been), I'm almost forced to run either Rumble or the Rotator playlist. I like Rumble but I can't play it with friends. And this week the Rotator has been good cause it's been Clash but I don't see myself playing it when it's Team Scorched. [b][u]I don't think the solution is to roll back the changes to Control.[/u][/b] I'm hoping that having a safe place for low skill/casual players to enjoy PvP will have a healthy effect on the other playlists. But here are a few changes that could make the experience better for all players: [b][i]1. Remove the Elimination playlist[/i][/b] This playlist sees little activity. Using this node for something else will be way more beneficial. As for that something else... [b][i]2. Add a "Party" Playlist[/i][/b] Add a playlist for game modes like Mayhem, Momentum Control, Team Scorched, etc. Basically any game mode that overrides loadouts (like team scorched) or substantially changes the way the game plays (like Mayhem) should be in this Party Playlist. [b][i]3. The Improved Rotator Playlist[/i][/b] Once the Party modes are pulled from the Rotator, the Rotator playlist should have modes like Clash, Rift, Eruption, Supremacy. This playlist would also be CBMM. With these changes, hopefully both CBMM and SBMM can exist for 6v6 Crucible and do well.[/quote] SBMM is not a crutch for low skilled players. It is a fair mode for all players. Bungie is actually still dialing this system in with the goal (as I understand it) of making the system fair, and timely for all players. Re: Fun/Relaxed Experience There is no such thing as Fun/Relaxed combat to the death. In any contest of ANY kind, all players want to win. The only way a 'fun/relaxed' experience can exist for some players, is for most of the other players to be [i]Star Trek[/i] 'Red Shirts'. I understand that is the way matchmaking was for a long time, but please, let's let it go. It was never fair or right (also, I am fairly certain there are a ton of networking issues, poorly tuned protocols, and other factors affecting pvp balance that effect player performance aside from skill). Bungie should do [i]WHATEVER[/i] is needed to bring SBMM, and lobby balancing to a fair place for ALL players, then apply it across ALL pvp modes. (btw, when I say whatever is needed, I mean ANYTHING, including, if necessary, dedicated servers, or even brand new, from the ground up cross platform networking technology) 901 Employees, just sold for 3.6 Billion, second most financially successful game company of all time. Bungie [i]can[/i] sort this out, and they absolutely should make it priority no. one. One last thing... I see no reason a truly balanced system can't be [i]TESTED[/i] to [b]PROVE[/b] its balanced. Bungie should get it balanced, test it, publish the results, and bury this discussion for good. [i]Gunship[/i]

[quote] [b][i]1. Remove the Elimination playlist[/i][/b] This playlist sees little activity. Using this node for something else will be way more beneficial. As for that something else...[/quote] Remove survival and make comp elim.

I guess I just played one of those matches where its supposedly a complete tossup in terms of who might win. Am I not supposed to notice how that happens when that happens. Its actually quite skilless.

Soon as I seen you put about trials I ignored the rest and believe your just another player that doesn't like playing people the same skill as him

git gud scrubie

I'm a dedicated player and have been loving the crucible this season.

The camp meta is always boring long range fights aren't as fun and team shooting is even worse. Spawn flipping is resulting in more deaths than ever now

I like all of these ideas except the removal of elimination I think they should re-add sabotage and put sabotage, elimination and survival into a competitive playlist

"Git Gud" "Go play elimination/whatever" "We wanna try off meta builds and just have fun" Proceeds to run meta and pub stomp Soo who is suppose to have fun here??

35 year old double primary players with 0 awareness and the refusal to learn the game, who cry like children and race to the forums to complain about OP things being balanced and ‘why can’t I buy seasonal items years later’. many of the players who complained and love SBMM are often not players with severely low play time, many are people that have put a substantial amount of time in to Destiny but genuinely refuse to put in any effort to improve. Now they race on here to screech “NoW yOu KnOw HoW i FeEl REEEEEEEE” salivating at the thought of people who are better at a mode they don’t play have to deal with lag that I haven’t seen since the xbox 360 era. if you don’t learn raid mechanics there isn’t a skill based option that puts all the lazy players who can’t clear content together and get to clear trash mobs to earn loot, there isn’t EZ mode grand masters, why is this concept brought to a non competitive PvP mode?

K/DA isn't the entire picture, and I chuckle seeing all these players using it as justification for their arguments. What they don't want to admit is they want SOMETHING to grasp at, SOMETHING to point to and hope it proves them unequivocally right. Have I been enjoying PvP less? Yeah. And I'm by no means a top-tier player; actually, I'd fall into the category of players they're trying to "protect". PvP just feels more exhausting for me to play than it did last season. The issue with an SBMM environment is that it assumes everyone is using the same loadouts... and in Destiny, that's about as likely as cutting your hand with a spoon; It COULD happen, but it's not worth preparing for. In a competitive setting, sure, It's more likely. But Control shouldn't be a competitive setting. The players crying for SBMM are markedly absent when you point out that Competitive exists, too. Let's cut to the meat of the problem then. Lower skilled players, completely allergic to improvement, want easier matches. There's no better way to slice this. They want the easiest matches possible, so that they don't feel like they're sweating all the time. Then, when they finally hit the higher tiers and start sweating, they'll begin complaining about it, mirroring the higher skilled players. Higher skilled players are now forced to sweat, and they're upset that their chill experience is gone. They enjoyed their slower, easier matches. Because public matches shouldn't be sweaty in their minds (and I'm not going to hide my bias here; I'm on their side in this regard), but there's also no denying that having a higher tier player in a lobby could be immensely disruptive. The solution? Make two PvP nodes. Both Control; one with SBMM, and one with CBMM. Then, after a year with both, make the decision of whether or not it's worth keeping both, or just one. If you must have one, then pick the one with the most playtime. And even better? Don't tell the players which is which... you get more unbiased data that way.

" Now that you add quitter penalties so I can't quit games where players are lagging, or I'm facing stacks, or just generally awful team balancing" LBMM is still active so you are going to see the same issues until Bungie tear it out. Higher Skill Spectrum? Yeahhhh about that. It's lonely up there isn't it? I mean anyone cheesing the sandbox will be suffering up top. The penality is fair. But under one condition. Bungie have in theory added it to gather info as accurately as possible to adjust SBMM accordingly. People quitting makes that take more time.