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Daemon Whiteにより編集済み: 7/29/2022 2:59:46 PM
47

Loose SBMM Sounds like a Fantastic Middleground

Myself and plenty others have been pretty vocal about this too, so I'm gonna spout out why this SBMM is a more ideal method of matchmaking. Wall of Text incoming, TLDR at bottom. 1. It is not "Strict" SBMM. Loose SBMM is more of an outlier protection than the kind of Skill-based matchmaking we have in Glory playlist. Low-skill players wouldn't be purely matched with low-skill, and High-skill players aren't going to be left hanging for 10+ minutes just to match up with the same people they've already fought for the past 5 matches. Low-skill players will not have a safe haven to hide from better players, but they also wouldn't be matched up against high-skill players either. Top skill players will still be able to chill out more and fight people less skilled than them, but they also won't be getting kills for free either. Think of it like sorting Skittles / M&Ms. You're not matching red to red, green to green, blue to blue, but more making a cut in the middle so blue never matches red, but green gets allowed in. And red isn't only with red, green gets added in to the mix as well. 2. This should revitalize the PvP playerbase short-term, and potentially long-term IF the average player can agree with the matches they end up in. People like new things. People especially like new things that promise to not skin them alive and toss them in a pit of salt, that's basic psychology. People right now also do not like the current state of PvP. These people are the average player, the ones who are the cannonfodder to the high-skill players, the ones who pop in for the pinnacles, challenges, or bounties and then immediately leave once they're done. Like a fresh shiny gun offered in Trials opening week, the population will most likely spike up so we need to do what we can to hold as many of them as possible. Loose SBMM should provide them the reduction in headaches needed to keep a more healthy playerbase once they see that they have a fighting chance. 3. This new SBMM is not set in stone. Bungie can adjust this one as needed, and is working on also making this Adaptive. Meaning that it can be narrower skill allowance at the bottom and getting wider at the top. I've called it this before, and I'm saying it again: The "Inverse Pyramid" SBMM. But that's where we come in. As a community, we need to help Bungie find where the sweet spot is in the first few weeks while it's fresh and they're still adjusting it. And please, we need to also give better feedback aside from "SBMM bad, remove it". Because then we'll all just return to the cesspool it currently is. 4. This new SBMM does NOT fix team stacking. So hey, if you got some quality buddies to shoot up crucible with, go nuts. There's no guarantee that you'll be facing other stacks every match, and if you do there's no guarantee that the other stack has the same skill level as you either. Your overall skill could match the highest skill of the other stack, but they're carrying 2 low-skill friends. Who knows? 5. This new SBMM still prioritizes connection. But it will increase waiting times as it sorts out player skill and assigns teams accordingly or increases allowances to create the lobby. This will need the most feedback I'm thinking. Hopefully if the playerbase kicks up again to look at the new thing, this won't be too much of an issue. Same as note 4 though, International Fireteams WILL throw a wrench into that. A fireteam consisting of an American, German, Englishman, etc will both cause -and- have a bad time for latency. That's unavoidable. But also going back to note 2, we need to try and foster this returning playerbase as a community as well. If we keep scaring or gatekeeping them out, crucible might as well remain on life support. 6. We might be able to revert specific nerfs that were made due to the skill disparity. I saw this mentioned in another thread, but remember the slide nerfs? Those were made to try and balance the skill differences. We could probably push to revert them if the skill disparity is solved in matchmaking. - And I get it, too. Bungie has done a lot of "Say one cool thing, -blam!- it up somehow". There's been a lot of total silence while feedback is a raging dumpster fire, but finally with this recent TWAB specifically mentioning Loose SBMM, it's a sign that they DO listen. They do see the issues and common threads of suggestions how to fix it. The speed of which this happens is sorely lacking... but I digress. Also for consideration, Destiny now is not the same as Destiny then. Especially since the reshuffle after Beyond Light's launch. The change is aggravatingly slow, but it does seem to be happening. Witch Queen's PvE is in my opinion the best I've ever played so far (From Season of Arrivals), and with PvE being their main Bread and Butter, I can see why they'd want to get all those eggs sorted out first. Especially after the debacle of sunsetting. TL:DR - Loose SBMM should kick-start PvP again and offer a more balanced experience in Control. It's not a silver bullet, but it's a start. Being a new algorithm, we cannot base past experiences on it and need to give it a try + give feedback while it's hot because this algorithm CAN change. You can probably still go pub stomp with your high-skill buddies. If we fix the skill difference issue in matchmaking, we might be able to push Bungie to revert the movement nerfs they made to try and balance that issue.

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  • Not getting absolutely stomped by god-tier uber sweats? Actually playing people around my skill level? Sold! I play a lot of Crucible, (about 20 hours per week) and it can create some intense staring in the mirror and asking myself what I'm doing with my life moments after getting destroyed 10 matches in a row. This feels better so far. I'm happy to wait longer for matches if it actually feels like I'm progressing as a player instead of measuring improvement based on going from 0.27 k/d to only 0.32... again, I'm going to be playing Crucible anyway but to do it and not constantly suffer? Two thumbs up so far! 👍

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  • It will begone when the content creators start conplaining.

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  • I welcome the changes. What’s going on with devs lately? Even Rockstar gave their community what the grinders have been asking for since businesses were introduced even though it really sucks about Red Dead. It had so much potential. Now bungie is focusing on fixing their matchmaking? I’m not a good pvp player. But I’ve had some ups but mostly downs with this pvp. I don’t know if anyone else noticed that if 2 three stacks were in the lobby and 6 solos the three stacks seemed to be on the same team like more often than not. Sometimes I’d check the players coming into the match and see if there was a stack or 2 and when they’re were I’d say to myself “I bet they’ll be put on the same team!” And not to my surprise anymore they were put on the same team. What would be surprising is seeing the 2 stacks on opposing teams. That would have been like seeing Bigfoot.

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    • Players with over a certain ELO should be banned from casual playlists.

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      • I've been suggesting for while that they use bell curve match making. 3 pools. 1 for the low skilled (1kda and below) the gen pop pool (1.01- 1.8) and then the elite pool (1.81-2.0+) Too me it sounds like they are doing something similar but there are 4-6 pools.

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        • Some of us have only been suggesting loose SBMM for the better half of a year…

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          • Dudes tripping on LSBMM in one playlist is priceless. I guess someone struck a nerve when they selected control for tuning. Nobody was kd farming in control, right?🤣 Long answers short…could it really get any worse than it is now?…no. Can it kill an already dwindling playerbase…no. Will high skill players hate it…yes. Do average players care at this point after getting their shyt kicked in for the last 4 years…HELL NO!

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            4 通の返信
            • Y’all are going to get slapped still unless you fix the actual problem. Which is actually just you.

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            • As i hate the current cbmm this is welcome, i am fed up of being steamrollered in 3/4 of matches. That said last 8 matches were ok, avoidedcontrol a couple of good clashes, some won survival and some ok but lost TOO. I do not have lightning reactions any more, a duff thumb, and i like zoomed in rifles.

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            • tldr I would rather have to wait 30 minutes to find 1 balanced match with good connection than whatever the -blam!- Bungie is doing

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            • Doesn’t matter what system they use. People aren’t going to continue to play PvP in a broken, ability spam meta like we have now.

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              4 通の返信
              • If they fix the fact that there is currently 900 skill disparity between the best and the worst player in 50% of matches alone - they did enough. 1% chance of winning a duel is more than what they have now, which is absolute zero. It literally can't get worse.

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                • I feel like this SBMM will work but that’s on paper and numbers. I’d like to play it before I form an opinion. It’s probably the best middle ground without pissing anyone off. I’m gonna hold them to their word with saying they’re going to keep a close eye on the QP matchmaking in the early weeks. Only thing that concerns me is matchmaking time and lobby balancing once the game starts. Hopefully the teams feel balanced now without one person per team being a god vs the others running into walls or crouching in the back :/

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                • Loose SBMM sounds like a particularly nasty medical problem. Actually it will probably be accurate in describing how PvP plays next season.

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                • If it’s like black ops 2 sbmm where it was “loose” making it fun and competitive I’m all for it.

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                  • i like the change.

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                  • No, sbmm should never be present yo any degree in casual playlists. Ever. This change will lead the same way each of the 3 attempts at sb destiny has tried: to a dead playerbase and, should bungie somehow not panic revert after 6 months lead to a dead game. Again. You talk about "returning players" and "renewed interest" but the reality is sb is preffered only by the bottom tier who make up a fraction of the playerbase and who barely touch pvp no matter the mm. I'm ready to see pvp number tank, maybe once it fails and bungie swap back they'll finally get the message, I have no hope for the bottom tiers though - they can see sb fail time and again and still cry for it to come back despite its every iteration killing the playerbase

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                    54 通の返信
                    • Sohsuhにより編集済み: 7/30/2022 4:04:18 PM
                      It sounds good on paper, but let's not pretend like Bungie can actually implement things properly. Remember Air Effectiveness sounded good on paper too. Then when it released it was all lies from Bungie and it was one of the worst things ever implemented into pvp. Also, don't forget it takes Bungie forever to fix things, especially in pvp, so if you have long wait times, tons of lag, or you're for whatever reason only facing high skilled players because the SBMM isn't working properly, just know you're going to have to suffer for a long time with that because Bungie isn't going to be fixing things quickly. Even when they do "fix" things, other things end up breaking in the process. Look at Trials. They have been tinkering with it since September, which is like 11 months, and it is still terrible. 11 months in and they haven't even gotten it close to being a fun/good experience. So how long will they tinker with this loose SBMM? Let's also not forget that the matchmaking was only a tiny part of the issue with crucible. It's not going to magically bring thousands of players in. SBMM doesn't work properly without a really high population, which Crucible doesn't have. The real issue that Bungie is still ignoring is the fact Crucible doesn't get any content. There's no incentive to play. No maps, no new modes, no cool loot to chase. They think adding some loose SBMM is going to fix everything. You're still going to get rocked by all the cheesy unbalanced stuff on these same maps playing the same mode and you're not going to suddenly have fun and want to play everyday. This is all just cloak and daggers because at the end of the day, Bungie still is not making any actual content for pvp. They can't even implement the team vs team part next season. For some reason we have to wait until season 19 for that. They didn't announce the returning D1 map for next season either, which I am guessing is going to be one that barely anyone likes instead of one of the favorites, and no matter what it will play poorly like the other D1 maps do in D2. This loose SBMM isn't going to change anything, because Crucible is still neglected and it's still the same thing that we were playing 3 years ago. If they want to kick start pvp again, then they need to add maps, modes, and loot. It's that simple.

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                      11 通の返信
                      • Sounds so great we all got baited by the word “loos” Trust me this can’t be loos.. they end goal is that a controle game has 10 points difference. This in a game mode where a kill can give 1 to 3 points on a kill let’s say this is between 3/6 kills divided true 6 players this is like 0.7 kill per player difference in a game. This is not loos, this will be extremely strict. Look at this way alleys say that one player has 6 kills more then everybody on the team this must mean that the whole team must go negative to compensate for this one player this will be so much fun to watch

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                      • Seems a bit funny for anyone to imply they every had sbmm in the past when they've admitted in past articles/blogs that they have a 50/50 win loss system in place

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                      • As someone with around 900 sr on pc this is "Loose sbmm" is just Bungie saying we don't value your money or time. We don't want you to play our game. Loose sbmm is a play on words they legit want 20% if games to go to time... They want predetermined wins and loses. Their will never be a que time that's less than 10 minutes. I'll either be in que for 10+ or just get error coded out of que.

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                      • Wrote a book just to be wrong lol

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                        • [quote]Think of it like sorting Skittles / M&Ms. You're not matching red to red, green to green, blue to blue, but more making a cut in the middle so blue never matches red, but green gets allowed in.[/quote] [url=https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground]Your Logical Fallacy Is: Middle Ground[/url]

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                          5 通の返信
                          • I'm skeptical that Bungie is being a little too ambitious, and I don't fault them for that, but Destiny's PvP player numbers are pretty low, and the peer to peer networking already creates situations where you appear to be 1 shot out of nowhere, shot through walls, etc. with CBMM on. I remember the days of SBMM before being a better experience for me, but it's not all peaches and cream either. And, CBMM isn't Crucible's only problem. Build crafting is not meant for 6v6 gun based PvP, and between exotics, mods, one shot specials, gun perks, and the build crafting, each engagement is TOO dynamic.

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                            • Lord Ignatiusにより編集済み: 7/30/2022 5:06:23 AM
                              It will help new players and decent players but will cause an Issue for players like me who are 1.0 lifetime and can't change that without a colossal amount of perfect games but can play decent. This addresses sweats but harms outliers who were beaten to 1.0 by the sweats. Glad its here but its gonna be pretty wonky unless we starting fresh otherwise I dominate at my skill level but be punished by team balancing for playing above my projected stats.

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                              5 通の返信
                              • Not bothered about sbmm as it will make 6v6 easier.. am more bothered about numbers on each team, soon as it puts teams against teams I’ll be happy

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