[quote]Trials is Endgame PVP, what do you expect? I'd sure as sh*t not expect lower skilled PVE players to be good in GMs[/quote] Can you tell me what the difference between trials and regular elimination is?

Light level, Rewards, average skill…

So if a player with a high power level plays trials then the only difference is the rewards? Since both good and bad players hit regular elimination, it’s really just power level Not much of an end game is it

Then the difference is rewards and competition. Elimination does not have the competition trials has. So at max level (if everyone is at) the difference is skill and rewards… It’s enough of a difference that a bunch of players are constantly crying about it on the forums

So the issue is that its open to the public. If its open, the purpose is to get as many people playing as possible. If they want everyone to run Trials and get the loot, then they're going to have to make it easier for the vast majority of that public. If they don't want the public on Trials, then there shouldn't be matchmaking, but that's how it used to be, people got upset, and they changed it specifically so that everyone could grind Trials for loot, so that leaves one viable answer. They're going to have to make it easier to get everything, or lock out the top tiers, somehow, from ruining it for everyone. That's the price people have to pay for "skill" as they like to call it. No skill in stomping people with no resistance though, that's just plain exploitation, but the player can't control that setup, so we can't really blame each other, but something needs to be done. People are just tuned differently. The more "skilled" you are, the smaller group you get to match fairly against, that's just life. However they have to do it, they're going to have to figure out how to match with skill or K/D, win/loss, whatever, if it is to remain open to the public, anyway. They want to keep Trials fair for everyone, then top tiers only get to go against each other.

[quote]If they don't want the public on Trials, then there shouldn't be matchmaking[/quote] Hell, players below a certain performance shouldn't even be able to select trial imo, if Trials is not meant to be public.

I'd disagree, given the reason it was opened to the public in the first place, and will explain. Sorry its long, but its not a simple issue. So elitism is, by far the biggest problem with Destiny, even above the game breaking stuff. Bottom line, I see nothing wrong with removing the flawless requirement to get to the Lighthouse; the reason being in my own personal experiences, that are not unique, and quite common. It takes literal entire weekends playing back to back Trials just to get 7 wins on the card. Regular 3v3 elimination is doable, and can be quite fun actually, but Trials is always the most highly toxic experience I've ever come across in gaming, and its time to smash egos. All PvP should be open to the public, and all rewards should be available just like anywhere else. I think the Lighthouse shouldn't require flawless, just a complete card. People think its entitlement, or just getting things, but the reality is that's a weak excuse for people who just want to look better than they actually are. They want to continue getting it as easy as possible. We just seem to be geared like that, as stupid as it sounds. Everybody wants free wins to get stuff they want, but everyone should also have to earn it. Stomping teams with no resistance is not earning anything. Elite groups and players thinking that elite groups and players should just play against the general public, with little to no resistance so they can easy farm the Lighthouse is just entitled as they see what I just proposed, and because its not a challenge for them, its also the easy win, so there is no valid foothold for those arguments, they're just wrong. It should be as challenging as possible for everyone, which generally comes down to SBMM, but other things as well. Entering Lighthouse after a complete card will happen a lot for some, and take forever for others, but everybody gets access to that loot. They still have to work hard and put in a lot of time to get the right rolls, and who will put in the most time? The bottom tiers. No matter what, they are working harder than everyone else because of the bigger challenge associated for them, and I see zero reason to gatekeep things from anyone, especially in PvP. As long as the work is put in, there is no problem rewarding that in something like a videogame that has zero point to anything in life except killing time. For a few, it is also a moneymaker, but they should have to work hard to earn that too, and since the reward for Trials is the Lighthouse spoils, then that's the goal for all. The only thing that should be associated with [i]"Flawless"[/i] title, is bragging rights via title, banner, whatever; if the ego is so fragile it needs that, and that's it. That's literally all people get in any other PvP game, especially the games like COD, or Halo that inspired games like Destiny. It should be no different here. In PvP, exclusive, powerful loot for special people is what ruins PvP, that HAS to remain on as equal grounds as possible. That is the literal requirement for PvP or nobody would engage. Look at every PvP game Destiny wants to be with competition. Nobody gets exclusive gear, everybody gets the same stuff. What bridges skill gaps is simply the time it takes to acquire everything, but its all openly available to all. Usually its just level requirements. That's more than enough barrier between players, anything beyond is just egregious mismanagement and promotes toxic elitism, and Bungie is currently in lawsuits against one person over toxicity, and death/arson threats. That's only one person, but even in the workplace, they're vocal about how bad toxicity is in general, then they implement this stuff to promote that. If they want to stop as much toxicity as possible, then they have to embody that in every facet, down to the PvP gameplay of Destiny 2.

Can I get a tldr?

Then, Rapier, you are useless to the discussion and all of your input is invalid. Read it or shut the f*ck up about it, that's all there is to it man. Anyone who can't give the respect to fully read what someone has to say before responding, just isn't worth the respect to involve in anything beyond an interaction to tell them why they won't get the respect they think they deserve.

*Raepier

See? You read it, and you learned something.

Lesson learned your bad at spelling

[quote]I'd disagree, given the reason it was opened to the public in the first place, and will explain. Sorry its long, but its not a simple issue.[/quote] [quote]Hell, players below a certain performance shouldn't even be able to select trial imo, [b]if Trials is not meant to be public.[/b][/quote] I was referring to that case. I will read your comment later fully :)

The difference is that GMs are failed because of your own failure while Trials matchmaking placing you against literal PvP gods is more on a casino gambling level.

Because it's Endgame PVP. It wouldn't be endgame pvp if it was just stacking lower skilled players against eachother and they get the same rewards as the sweats who're sweating all over eachother

Then those sweats shouldn't complain when their matchmaking times take 5+ minutes to find them a game or when their matches are always sweaty. Because that is what they did the last time skill creep killed trials slowly.