I've been playing a lot of destiny pvp since the destiny beta 2014 and kinda stopped playing when stasis released, took a 8 month break from the game and started playing again in season of the lost. I even played 8h of quickplay a day in destiny 2 year 1 when double primaries were a thing but now there is nothing anymore that makes me want to play destiny pvp for fun. [b]Sometimes its loot or a quest but I dont want to play destiny pvp for fun anymore.[/b] Destiny PvP has been going downhill for a lot of folks for a very long time now and I've been thinking about taking the proper time to put it into words why: Crucible just feels like you are fighting an uphill battle in every engagement - [i]like the game is just rigged against you.[/i] I do not mean the general framework bungie is providing for pvp. I think that after 7 years the community just accepted the fact that connections are horrible, melees blank, double/triple damage bugs, people rubberbanding teleport behind you like taken captains, architects. I still think its kinda funny that people just accept the fact that people lag around like crazy and you suddenly are dead in laying in the dirt and you dont understand why but its whatever - its destiny, right? We've come to terms with this kind of bs - I guess. There was always annoying/strong stuff in destiny - vex mythoclast when it released, thorn hawkmoon oneshots in y1, pulse rifles when taken king released, sunsinger double burn in y2 or stormcaller ridiculous melee range in y3 combined with matador and clever dragon. There was always stuff that was completely overpowered in the meta. I'm not here to talk about balance. Destiny is inherently unbalanced and we all know that. After the activision split there was a change in how bungie envisions pvp. We got things like mountaintop which were pretty fun and strong guns but were absolutely only made with the intention to get cheap kills. Stuff like jotunn released, symmetry or now osteo striga which are [b]by no means overpowered or strong guns. Im not trynna say that [/b]- but these are guns that completely aim for its user. Symmetry is a primary that can 2 tap on any range while tracking its target. Then theres exotic armor like dunemarchers that make people die for no reason. Like your teammate is standing 20 meters on the other side of the map behind a wall and loses his close quarter gunfight - gets meleed and you get double, sometimes triple lightning chained to death. You are just dead now. This feels like u just got 3rd party softwared on. I just listed some examples here but honestly, how many times do you die in destiny to some BS like that? I cant even count all the BS that currently affects or has affected the sandbox just a few weeks ago. Bows in empowering rifts - lorely and erianas, bow hotswap, empowering arc soul dmt, invis, shatterdive, freezes in general, lorenz driver spawns a black hole that sucks in your entire team throwing them into the walls making them die to the architects. While I agree that it is fun to get a quad kill with one lorenz shot on the zone it completely is anti fun for the receiving end since you just got BSed on. And this is all destiny 2 pvp is at the moment. Its just a collection of very annoying stuff to play against (not necessarily overpowered or broken). [b]The sandbox is just convoluted with so many things that are annoying to play against[/b] and like I described earlier destiny didnt use to be like this. There was always BS but in a manageable way. When it came to overpowered or broken/cheesy stuff bungie used to say that its easier to put the nail sticking out of the board back in its place than putting more nails in it - but thats literally all we have right now. A lot of nails ur trying to counter and fight against. [i]"Oh they are using dmt, so you better also equip a long range rifle"[/i] - then you have a bow on the enemy team which forces you to play differently and than they got a lorely splendor titan which results in you not taking any gunfights at all until he shot all his erianas ammo. Theres just a lot of things you have to check on before you actually start a gunfight which results in the game becoming slower since you just cant take the battle anymore. Back in 2015 when trials of osiris released for its first time we [b]started a cycle of nerfing primaries[/b] into the ground which resulted in no special ammo in y3 of destiny 1 which latter became the double primary snoozefest we got with destiny 2. People wanted more primary fights back in the day because everyone started using specials. People started using specials because you couldnt finish a gunfight with a primary cuz they were just to weak and people escaped and ran away before their healthbear reached zero. Bungie took "more primary gunfights" a little bit to literal and removed all specials from the game. Thats what we got in destiny 2 y1 and people hated it. On console we had a scout rifle/sidearm meta for almost the entire year and you couldnt take any 1v1 gunfights at all. Bungie stated that they were close to stopping production on destiny 2 during february 2018 and they had to do something.The game was just slow and sluggish and you couldnt kill anyone in a 1v1 since he just left the gunfight. The only consistent way to kill people was teamshot them. The game in general was in a very bad place during that time and the player numbers were on an all time low. Bungie realized this very early and decided to make the "go fast update" in march 2018. Make peoples movement faster so the game flows faster. Then they made the time to kill faster and gave us back special weapons in a way stronger form than they were for the past 12 months and literally no one complained cuz you had strong primaries to fight them and the game was fast paced. And now we are in the same spot we were in 2017 before destiny 2 released. Primaries are horrible and people resorted to special weapons and abilitys to seal the deal since you just cant kill people with a primaries consistently when all people do is sit in healing rifts on the other side of the map with dmt or pulse rifles - they just hide and leave. You want consistency in your gameplay when you play against other players. [b]But now your guns behave differently when your sliding or your jumping[/b]. Or in the case of airborne (in)effectiveness they even behave completely different depending on how many solar kills you got before jumping or if you have the perfect exotic equipped for this situation. You already have a lot to worry about before taking fights in destiny 2. You have to look at the radar how many people there are, they could have heavy since it just spawned - he could have a rocket or a nade launcher. He might have a shotgun or there could be someone sitting in the back with a sniper. The guy your about to challenge could have kill clip active and you dont know and these things I just listed were all things you had to consider 3 years ago - Now the list of things you have to consider is almost infinite because bungie is trying to force "buildcrafting" into pvp even tho destiny pvp shines when its simple, fast and primary driven. The most fun thing about destiny which made people fall in love with this game is its gunplay and gunplay is just secondary to everything else in the current sandbox (even in pve). There are clearly 2 visions conflicting with each other and I really dont know why. On the one hand they try to make the sandbox competitive by introducing airborne (in)effectiveness so you actually have to aim for headshots but on the other hands stuff like lorenz driver with truck sized hitboxes exist which can wipe ur whole team by spawning a black hole that pulls everyone into a wall to make them die by architects. On the one hand they try to make rift competitive with long respawns but on the other hand they kill the only competitive aspect of that feature by resetting everyone back into spawn after a dunk. Rift also is just one example for a poorly developed crucible update. Trials in its initial d2 release comes to mind. Momentum control back when it released comes to mind. Breakthrough and its maps when forsaken released comes to mind. All of these things either got reworked or were vaulted because the community disliked them so much. To me its clear that the pvp team clearly misses the mark every single time and only gets it right after a lot of feedback and a long time has passed. [b][i]Idk why they changed so much about rift when people clearly said they liked it in destiny 1. Idk why they are going back on everything they learned in destiny 2 year one. Idk why they keep introducing more and more BS in the game when people clearly dont like to feel bullshitted every gunfight.[/i][/b] [b]All that bs you are fighting in destinys current sandbox just comes on top of the poor connections since cross play got introduced - the double or triple damage bug which makes you instantly drop dead. Melee Blanks, Melee rubberbanding, Supers not registering, destiny physics in general, 3rd party software, the -blam!- lobby balancing which makes 5 of my teammates fodder for the enemy team, the trials flawless pool, glory sbmm instead of rank mm and all this combined is the reason why I feel bullshitted when playing destiny pvp. Every gunfight is a uphill battle against the odds stacked against me to win.[/b]