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2/18/2022 5:39:58 PM
63
PvP is never going to be better if special ammo is not toned down
Fusion rifles making their way into the meta makes the special ammo economy problem in PvP abundantly obvious. Because fusion rifles outpreform primary weapons in primary engagements, which is what makes them so difficult to play against, it is made clear when someone gets 3/4 of their kills with a special weapon that there is a glaring problem. And no, the problem is not a skill issue. If you take what you assume to be a reasonable primary fight at 15-25m and someone is there with a fusion you will lose 100% of the time and theres not much to be done about it. It is the worst with fusions because they can actually completely replace primaries but it exists with shotguns and snipers too, there is just way too much special ammo on the field and the use of primary weapons is heavily disincentivized.
For those who say "you just want year 1 back" - I dont. There are a dozen things that have changed since then, not just the double primary system. Time to kill is faster, guns can have more perks on them and better base stats, mods exist, movement speed is faster, ability cooldowns are shorter... the game is overall very fast paced now and you are blind if you think a tuning of the special ammo economy would make us completely recess to the stale pace of year 1. There is a huge gap between then and now and the key is working around in the gap. I dont know exactly what the solution is but the problem is very clear.
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13 通の返信I completely agree. Special ammo is incredibly abundant in pvp and primary fights, depending on the map, are completely non existent. I believe there are three ways Bungie can fix this problem. 1. Making larger maps. 2. Reducing special ammo. 3. Nerfing ALL special weapons. I personally wish they would do a combination of 1 and 3. Creating larger maps is only a bandaid. Destiny maps have a lot of cover and it’s not difficult to play short range weapons on ANY map if you play cover and have good positioning. So only increasing map size won’t fix the problem. I think the CORE problem is the lethality of special weapons. There are two arguments here. 1. Special weapons are SPECIAL so they should be powerful. 2. Special weapons should be balanced. I understand players want their special weapons to feel special but ALL specials are currently over the top. Shotguns, fusions, grenade launchers, snipers, and all others. I got write an entire essay on how to balance them all but I’ll give three examples of what I mean. Shotguns still have to much range and are still incredibly inconsistent. Why not reduce shotgun rage by two or even three meters and in turn within their 4-5 meter range be extremely consistent. Fusions have extreme range, low charge time, and amazing stability. Why not reduce range while increasing charge time, then increase stability and handling. This way fusions can still push 10-12 meters and feel amazing but not destroy primary gun fights. Slug shotguns have way to much handling, insane range, and aim assist. Why not nerf range by 40% and reduce handling. In turn they could leave aim assist alone or even give it a slight buff. That way slugs like Chaperone don’t push 15 meters and instead stay between 6-10 while still feeling like a satisfying precision weapons. If they tune all special weapons and increase map size a tiny bit and remove the clutter from maps. Specials weapons will still feel special but more balanced, and primary weapons can shine a lot more. JUST MY OPINION
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4 通の返信Didn’t read your post, but based on your title you haven’t read the TWAB like 2 or 3 weeks ago where they explicitly stated they were toning down the amount of special ammo, so I think that’s justified.
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6 通の返信
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1 返信>Snipers and shotguns running rampant in crucible >I sleep >Fusion rifles become widely used >”Special ammo economy is a problem”
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7 通の返信What fusion can 100% consistently kill at 25 meters? A godroll aggressive frame can maybe push 17 meters with some luck, but once you hit 15-16 meters, kills are mostly determined by luck. Sounds like you got dropped by a lucky bolt and came here.
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3 通の返信It’s only 1 fusion that’s a problem. The rest all kinda struggle outside of 16-17 meters. And guess what: Tap the Trigger and by extension Main Ingredient is getting nerfed.
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21 通の返信Put the fkn shotgun down then, you straight-lining ape. All 3 classes have a shotgun equipped. I don't feel bad for you at all. You're obviously just bad at using your cover.
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1 返信dawheatにより編集済み: 2/19/2022 6:27:20 AMSometimes I'm not sure I play the same game as some of you. I almost always get at least 2x primary kills as special kills a game as do the people I play with. Sure once in a while you'll run into someone who's only using a special and slaying out but that's like once a night. I'm looking forward to the economy changes but the current sandbox seems fine to me.
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Exileantにより編集済み: 2/20/2022 5:11:12 PMThe issue that turned Destiny into what it is now is not the weapons, it is mobility. Adjusting sprint speed turning radius to maximum via a selector automatically gives a person with a mouse a staggering advantage. It is not very hard at all to simply click on someones head once you get passed ignoring the entire screen moving instead of just the C. top that off with slight wrist movements to be able to turn around and jitterbug, and you have Crucible that reflects everything wrong with online P.C. shooters. P.C. Keyboard and mouse needs to be toned down to levels that match a controller. Guardians used to move rather realistic. Slowly they are beginning to feel like Unreal Tournament Characters. Completely unhinged from reality with their movements, which will only lead to but one thing: People cheating. When you make it so a group of players cannot play the game like they use to, they search for ways to even the score. See, for you Fusion Rifles are a problem, not for me. Shotguns are what kills me. I am happy when someone uses a fusion against me because I know it will be a semi-fair fight. A Hunter with a shotgun though? They can dodge, bounce 3 times in the air, and now? Turn on a particle of dust. Unless you uses something that blatantly defies all convention in Crucible, a Console player does not stand a chance if they are using anything else; and even when they do, the best they can manage is revenge kills as when faced with an entire team of point and clickers as they can snipe you at Unreal angles and with enough speed the game can no longer process properly. I cannot tell you how may times I have been shot and killed where the bullet trail revealed it came through the wall or pillar of Ice, or a 212 ton rated steel beam.... Special is already toned down to the point of not having anything. 2 rounds of Shotgun... 2 Rounds of Fusion.... 50 Rounds of TRACE RIFLE.... That is terrible. Trace rifles can literally only get 1 kill per life and a properly built Titan can inhale the entire clip forcing you to swap weapons in order to finish the job....
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1 返信BedlamXにより編集済み: 2/20/2022 1:37:23 PM[quote]Fusion rifles making their way into the meta makes the special ammo economy problem in PvP abundantly obvious. Because fusion rifles outpreform primary weapons in primary engagements, which is what makes them so difficult to play against, it is made clear when someone gets 3/4 of their kills with a special weapon that there is a glaring problem. And no, the problem is not a skill issue. If you take what you assume to be a reasonable primary fight at 15-25m and someone is there with a fusion you will lose 100% of the time and theres not much to be done about it. It is the worst with fusions because they can actually completely replace primaries but it exists with shotguns and snipers too, there is just way too much special ammo on the field and the use of primary weapons is heavily disincentivized. For those who say "you just want year 1 back" - I dont. There are a dozen things that have changed since then, not just the double primary system. Time to kill is faster, guns can have more perks on them and better base stats, mods exist, movement speed is faster, ability cooldowns are shorter... the game is overall very fast paced now and you are blind if you think a tuning of the special ammo economy would make us completely recess to the stale pace of year 1. There is a huge gap between then and now and the key is working around in the gap. I dont know exactly what the solution is but the problem is very clear.[/quote] It’s defiantly a skill issue. The one hit kill weapons in this game require no skill…GHorn for example point/ click/dead it’s easy mode for sure. How much skill does it take to run around the map shotgunning and punching Getting reloaded after every kill and getting reloaded after every death yes the ammo is a problem also I run double primary and my KD shows it.
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There are lots of problems in pvp. I guess fusions are one. I've never been fond of people speeding about with shotguns running ,jumping, sliding, as if their brains asleep or half-baked. That all seems 🥔 v. 🥔 to me. More specifically though, there are so many green bricks lying about you don't even have to [i]try[/i] and pick it up because it's EVERYWHERE! I don't crucible often, (with reason), special ammo is a freaking bounty!
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11 通の返信I see more problem with people farming heavy getting the easy gjally multikills. Anyone that's played any amount of PvP knows that fusion users are the least skilled in the PvP world (remember Jotunn/Telesto?), and outside of the few that use it for easy smeazy kills, the newbies wouldn't stand a chance without the crutch.
