Hand Cannons really don’t need to be nerfed, and most certainly not a “massive nerf” as you’re suggesting. Hand cannons will always just have the versatility and peek-shooting capabilities that will keep them relevant in some capacity but that doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of other viable alternatives. Pulses, sidearms, bows, and SMGs all can outgun Hand Cannons if you play your ranges well. Scouts definitely could if there were more ranged maps too. Auto Rifles really feel like the only weapons that aren’t keeping up, but the ease of just holding the trigger down until someone peeks is valuable for players of lower skill and they really aren’t that horrible of a weapon type (you can still easily destroy lobbies of similar skill players if you’re playing well). A very minor auto buff and a few minor buffs to specific pulse and scout archetypes would really be all the game needs for the primary weapons to be pretty balanced relative to each other. But what the game really needs to reduce HC usage is just more map diversity. This is all coming from a person that never uses HCs competitively in PvP. I tend to rotate around all the other primary weapon types besides Autos depending on what my team needs, what the enemy has, what special I’m running, and the map.

They already got a massive nerf with shadowkeep. It cut their range in half and lowered aim assist. People will still use HC'S even if they get nerfed.

Spam benefit of the doubt cannons.

There’s just too many hc/sg lovers here, to defend their use. It ain’t going away, anytime soon or later. It’s why I don’t play as much pvp, anymore. Bungie won’t ever rotate metas for a long enough time, without the hc/sg crowd (which is huge) complaining about a different meta. 2 months of a different meta is nothing, when compared to the game’s entire life.

I agree. Either buff other primaries to be more competitive or give HCs less range/Aim Assit On paper, Pulses and some ARs have a faster TTK. But in reality you have to land many Head Shots to achieve that whilst dealing with movement penalties and flinch. Hand Cannons only need to land a few Head Shots and have limited movement penalties. They also are great on maps with lots of cover(which is most of what we have) and have incredible Range.

Sounds like user error to me

[quote]Title, they’ve been the top weapon choice since pally came into play in D1. It’s past time, nerf them Into the -blam!- dirt.[/quote] I say give AR back the buff they got in season 10. Remove explosive payload, high caliber rounds, damage perks, and reduce the range of 140 handcannons to be 32 meters max. But to compensate make all the 140s into 150s again. That would be fairly balanced imo.

Have you heard of rapid fire frame / high impact frame pulses? Quite the powerful counter [spoiler]darkest before and messenger [/spoiler]

[quote]Title, they’ve been the top weapon choice since pally came into play in D1. It’s past time, nerf them Into the -blam!- dirt.[/quote] Why.. because they are a percision weapon? That have steep range drop offs and flinch super easy.. are you wanting span trash weapons to be meta again? Or maybe you want the scout meta back.. so we can all sit at the back of the map

Have you tried a pulse rifle? Or perhaps a scout? Dead Mans Tale in particular is good as a scout.

I want a nerf but I'm in the middle of this. Yes they dominate most cqc maps but when widow court or Midtown is the map to play on. I go against scouts or pulse more than I do HC. Bungie needs to bring in more bigger maps but people will b!tch bout players who sit in the back and call them cowards for a play style they don't like. I prefer snipers and pulse than HC/SG. But most maps being cqc I started using SMG/Sniper just so I can have a somewhat fighting chance. My opinion I wish Bungie had more bigger maps in the game. Like if we had 10 maps, make 5 large maps and 5 cqc.

I have thought about this for a long time, since the D1 days of Hawkmoon and Thorn 2 taps. But my main struggle with HCs has been really been they are just flat out better scout rifles. I don’t think they are OP, but they are exceptionally dominant because they are good at everything and bad at almost nothing relevant. For the HC/Scout comparison, imagine Scholar, but about half the range, better aim assist, lower flinch, lower zoom, better overall stats, better air accuracy, and it inflicts about 50% more flinch. At the cost of 10rpm. Everybody would use the thing, it would be considered a busted scout rifle. That’s a competitive 140 atm. Now some of this is because the maps are mostly short/midrange style maps, I concede this point, but movement exotics and lightweight weapons make even bigger maps feel much smaller due to the speed in which the distance can be closed. But that’s a separate issue for another thread. Primarily the two biggest issues with HCs are range and flinch. They have far too much range, you can hit about 35-40 meters depending on the HC, which is about 95% of engagement ranges and even a 20% damage drop off doesn’t affect the ttk too much. The other issue is Flinch, they have a very low response to flinch and inflict a great deal of it, esp with explosive rounds/timed payload. Those two issues combined make them the top weapon because you can peek shot, open duel and effectively engage enemies at almost all engagement ranges, with [i]no downside[/i]. They need to be tuned towards the close-mid fight and less towards the mid-long.

Change the maps and lobby balancing first before another nerf. There are archetypes in the game that are untouched and need to be addressed first.

Don't use them if you don't like them.

They had their range nerfed to a reasonable amount before, but the “Rheeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!” Was so loud it only lasted a few season before it was reverted, with a 600 auto nerf, and a 120hc meta buff, to put them way back on top again. Oh, and the reduction in bloom “buff” that came as compensation for the range nerf, ya that was never reverted when the range came back. Honestly I would be fine with hand cannon range if they boosted the scope zoom from 1.2x to 1.7/1.8x like every other weapon class that can hit the the 35-37m range bracket. That would really narrow up the aim assist cones and give them a penalty up close, this is what “balances” scout rifles. Would give low zoom side arms and subs (and autos?) way more room to breath. Hc’s are mini scout rifles and should be treated as such.

nope.