What, you mean auto-loading holster with extra steps [i]isn't[/i] an exotic perk??

I also don't like the Xenophage thing. But year the "You Shouldn't be manually reloading Fighting Lion anyway" take is...absurd. Fighting Lion is worse than a Legendary GL now. Only reason to use it is out of devotion to the Church of Fighting Lion. Bungie made it so you need [b]RELIGION[/b] to justify using a weapon.

The fact that people are this heated about Fighting Lion is proof that people on the forums will complain about anything.

This was an awful and ill-considered change. Who even thinks of this shit?

No FL equipped? How many kills you got? Mine on 15k

They always come up with these left-field bullsh*t nerfs because they don't play the game. When a savvy intern taps them on the shoulder re future changes they jump out of their skin and panic nerf Like the Truth nerf in D1 this is pure sh*t with no community support and the CM's know it hence the absurd statement about reloading it yourself.

They should change the catalyst to include auto loading rather than reload speed

Are you really referring to a single shot breach loaded GL, as a primary??? Lol.

I don’t understand why they couldn’t have just separated fighting lion from the unlimited primary ammo and just make it the only primary that takes primary bricks. Or a million things lmao.

I got conqueror + gilded 2x using the FL as my main weapon for every single GM. I've beat all encounters and master VoG + challenges except for Templar and Atheon with the FL (because I needed a DPS exotic weapon). I have 665,406 kills on my fighting lion right now.. The mobility the gun provides is a very unique play style that keeps me coming back. No other game has this. This change absolutely kills the gun except for the most basic play style. Reloading while the grenade is in flight is critical for the FL to be viable for both PvP and PvE. Getting a reload bonus after damage is just not enough. Even without the reloader, the viability of the FL is questionable. When I miss a reload animation cancel or don't have reloaders on, the FL is more of a liability. I've got ~10k kills in PvP with the FL though I am not a hard core PvP player and don't do Trials since I don't know anyone that I can play with. Also I'd like to point out that I tend not to swap to clean up or prime. I've tried it and know how powerful it can be, but you might as well use a special GL with ALH. You lose a lot of mobility and options when swapping and I instead prefer to use primarily my FL for my kills without another weapon. Folks who don't know how to counter play GL get wrecked by GLs. I remember when SBB was on and I went into match with a more casual friend and it was an absolute massacre for the other team. However, against more experienced players that know how to counterplay GLs, it is extremely more difficult to fight against them. All my fights I have to choose to have a decent chance of winning. If I'm out of position I am at a severe disadvantage and will most likely die, and this is WITH reload canceling. If I miss the reload cancel, there's not even a chance. Streamers/good folks do amazing with basically any gun. I haven't really seen a stream where the streamer is oppressed by GLs. That's probably because they know how to deal with them. Just like they know not to turn a corner when they see a ping on a radar because they're going to get shotgunned. How popular is the FL right now? It basically already has infinite ammo already in all activities. I've heard conterarguments that GLs don't even seem that popular in PvP. Will someone just start spamming FL down a lane in PvP with infinite ammo? You can kinda already do that with 1 kill since after one kill you basically have that. Maybe someone's going to spam a control point? Well that basically just tells the team where you are and they'll just come kill you. Other guns don't announce that you're watching a position and give away where you are. I'm more than happy to provide some clips I've saved over the years or just play to demonstrate the style. IMHO swapping weapons with the FL is by far the worst way to play in PvE and arguably PvP depending on your play style. Might as well rock a ALH special grenade launcher at this point because the FL really doesn't have a point with this nerf. I already bought next season so I guess I'll give it a swing to see how bad it really is. Maybe I'll finally go bow Lion in PvP, get good at it, and realize that is really the best way to play. PvE is another story though... I'm not sure there's going to be a useful alternative play style. BTW there is nothing more fun than having a duel with another FL player. This will ruin that experience too. Edit: I'm most likely going to try to get 666,666 kills, call it the Fighting Beast, and then leave it in my vault as a novelty keepsake to remind me of the good times. Edit 2: I think I started using the fighting lion in Y2 right around when Gambit came out. I've basically used it non stop since then. Even now I believe I am still improving and it's apparent especially when looking back at some shots I had trouble with. This is what I love about the gun. You can keep getting better. I've learned to deal with shotgun apes, duel meta weapons in PvP, learn how to counter tactics folks use against me in PvP, consistently shoot things out of the air, etc. Maybe I'm a slow learner and it's faster for other folks to pick everything up but I believe the FL has a lot of depth. But one of the greatest joys is to see an enemy team pop 3 barricades to try to neutralize you and then you just kill them because you're now able to reliably airburst grenades accurately right above the barricades and kill them reliably when I had been trying to get better at that. And I feel like there's still many more shots I'm still inconsistent where I can improve. It's moments like those that make me love the FL. And it's moments like those that this nerf will destroy.

Sooooopo the catalyst is rendered useless now? WTF.... I'm probably one of the 1% that actually even uses this FL. Pretty soon they're going to find a way to nerf Achen and Ballhoo 😒

i am not sure if warlocks could not just simply bootreload in a rift and cover the entire map with bouncing betties 24/7..

Sorry, for clarification, if I kill a knight with fighting lion then kill a thrall with HC, fighting lion will reload?

I wanna see just 10 mins of Cosmo streaming his way of playing with FL. I’d like to see how often he gets the perk running

Exactly! The fast reload speed while manually reloading is what sets it apart from other tubes

There is a reason why it was nerfed this hard, alongside the general GL nerfs, there is something else going on that they are not telling you, an incoming change or something, otherwise they wouldn't have essentially made it completely useless. Nobody is going to use their exotic slot on it now. Hell, I can barely trigger the reload perk at all, even when I'm doing everything correctly. But with the "lot of changes" coming with Season 15, maybe it would actually be META, so instead of letting us have fun with it, they are nerfing it outright to eliminate even the possibility of it screwing something up. We'll just have to wait and see, Bungie is always sneaky with this shit. Edit: No, the reason is not the primaries going infinite. FL already pretty much has infinite ammo.

Since when does anybody ever run out of primary ammo. That is some of the dumbest bs i’ve heard in a while.

Agreed 100%. Got tens of thousands kills with FL. Now maybe it becomes pretty much not worth it? It was fun to use and different. Rarely ever saw anyone using it anyway.