This is false. Every post that says “all classes can be best” is wrong. There will always be a meta of which class performs the best in the most sections. Maybe every class has a niche spot where they are best but if they suck at everything other than that one job they aren’t a good class. I don’t play enough high level pve to know but I have friends who do GMs and master vog now and they will be able to say what class does which job the best and average those out to get a meta or best class

What is it then? Warlocks and Titans will be considered by some to be better than Hunters in VOG and some other high end activities, but nothing in this game PvE wise is hard enough where a “meta” class is necessary. Proper builds on each class will allow any class to do just fine in any activity. Some will say one class is more helpful, others will disagree. It’s subjective. There is no “best” class.

There is a best class. No matter how minute the overall advantage there will be one. Especially if we go by individual activity. Vog specifically I would say warlocks are the best no question. Spire forming and confluxes are just tower defence so stasis warlock is obviously going to be too tier. Well of radiance is also good for stationary healing. No other class gets that value which they do Oracles. Again warlocks rein supreme as you don’t need any debuffs or boss damage. You need to survive and kill adds. What sub classes do those two things the best? Well warlock and ice warlock Templar. The only super that is really heavily desired is well of radiance to survive the bombardment while you double slug hun. Bubble Titan is nice but is bubble better than a well? No Gatekeeper. It’s add clear and stopping enemies from moving towards a point. Can you guess what class does that? Ice warlock Aetheon- is the only one that really shakes this up a bit but even if we say warlock is last on here (which they aren’t) it wouldn’t be enough to prevent them from being the best in this raid. Well of radiance is very important here for most teams. It has solid damage with chaos reach but it comes down to debuffs not needing a specific class and 6 chaos reach with debuffs is an easy 1 phase I believe. And it doesn’t get much better than a safe 1 phase with that class or the best survivability option for standard dps. It’s this format that could be done all the way through every part of the game and averaged out and you would find a winner of the over all best class in the game. If they somehow tie on averages you could then give score weighting based on how often or how rewarding that activity is to do. There is a best class. There always is in any clas based game

What you have described is negligible. You’re arguing semantics and technicalities. For something to be “meta” it has to encompass a majority of the game’s population. You are not going to only run VOG with Warlocks because it’s the “meta” class. Is it slightly better? Sure. The difference is negligible tho, and nobody is going to be at a real disadvantage if they aren’t playing a certain class. So, again, to the question of which class is “best?” The answer, even if someone spent all that time breaking down every activity and averaged it out, would be irrelevant because it would still be argued.

Meta does not require a population %. Meta also doesn’t have to be a massive difference between the next best thing. All that matters is if it is mathematically better. There will always be a meta and a best class. It may not be necessary but it will be meta non the less. Sure things will be argued but it would be about getting the input from the most experienced and valued voices in the community. An example of this would be dattos statement that anarchy is the best gun in the game overall.if the players who understand the game the most and are the most qualified come to a consensus on a meta that that is the meta until someone brings up and presents a new meta. Metas change and evolve but there will be one always

Anarchy is the example of meta, yes. Because it’s so useful in basically ALL aspects of PvE. A class isn’t like that, because as you already stated, it changes from encounter to encounter. Hell, even break it down to just boss encounters, anarchy will be used in pretty much all of them. Which class is doing that? And again, what you’re discussing is negligible. My point stands. Play the class you want to play that fits your playstyle. There is no OP class.

Again meta doesn’t have to be 50x better it can be a few seconds better a few 1000 dps higher thats still the best no matter how negligible

Best ≠ meta. And again, it changes from encounter to encounter. Again, you’re arguing on pure semantics.

That’s exactly what meta is Best = meta

But again, it changes encounter to encounter. Activity to activity. This is the most pointless thing I’ve argued here, but whatever. You are literally nit picking a point that personal play style > any minute, negligible, bonus you may get.

Determining a meta is all about nit picking. It’s about finding the most optimal most efficient most powerful option no matter how small. That is meta. You just don’t seem to get that. Saying there is no best class is false there absolutely is. You should be saying it doesn’t really matter the difference is negligible not non existent. Even you saying it’s negligible proves my point that it is better and whatever is the best is meta

What’s the best class?

You want me to do the same breakdown for vog as I did with every activity average it out and then I’ll come up with my choice for best class. But I need to know your parameters. Is this pvp and pve? Is this on console or pc? There are many factors. I’ve already showed you an example though of this

There are so many factors. One you didn’t consider in your VOG was roles. Certain classes are better at ad clear, which is necessary in quite a few encounters. Some at boss DPS. Some, like Warlock, better for support. They can bring their survivability to the whole team, but the other roles are necessary too. So, how do you weigh that? And yes, I do want it encompassing the whole game. Raids, nightfalls, dungeons, crucible, hell even Gambit. It’s an impossible task, because there are far too many factors, and the weight you put on each one is subjective.

I’ll be going off of console. Pvp hunter Titan warlock Dungeons - hunter Titan tied with warlock last Prophecy warlock Titan hunter Pit of heresy Titan hunter warlock Shattered throne hunter Titan warlock (Titan and warlock are arguable) Raid vog is the new one so. Warlock Titan hunter Gambit Titan. The others are debatable but I would go with Titan warlock hunter Regular strikes warlock Titan hunter. Ideally just 3 warlocks I have details on why I’ve made the decision but if you need clarification I can provide on a specific topic. So overall I would rank (1 point for first 2 for second and so on lowest score is best) Hunter 11 points Warlock 10 Titan 9 Granted if I was going to specifically weight warlock would win because gambit is to be pushed down and warlock would be higher in pvp on pc. These are just my opinions I may not be right on what the best class is but there is one

[quote]These are just my opinions I may not be right on what the best class is[/quote] That’s my point. You value and weigh things differently then someone else may. It’s all subjective. There will never be a “best” class, because there is no way to, without doubt/debate, put forth a single class that is “best.”

Like I’ve said from the start it would be about getting input from those who play at the highest level. Undeniably there is a meta I just may not have determined it perfectly. It’s about getting the high level consensus it’s harder when the game has a minimal pro scene

You won’t get a consensus. That’s the point. Nobody is the same. You can play at the highest level with varying tactics and strategies, which include different classes.

Then why does every other game do it? There is a meta even if people don’t know it fully there is a best option how can there not be a best option that if played a certain way is superior to others.

No. For vog a factored the classes roles but not every encounter requires some roles. For example most of vog is add clear or plate defence which well of radiance and ice warlock are the best at. Templar is boss damage but we double slug him since that is the meta. No class gains a benefit over another when it comes to double slugging. Hunter can gain a 10% boost to its damage if you’re on stasis which isn’t the best. Titan can bubble which is more of a buff than WoR (well of radiance) but assuming 1 player out of your 5 dies half way through dps that is a 10% bet damage loss which makes up the difference in between the two and that’s being generous to bubble. Gatekeeper is more tower defence so the warlock is the best class as it fills that role the best. For aetheon warlock fills your support and buff role the best but maybe not dps the best but it can still one phase so at most you are probably looking at a 10s time difference between the two which doesn’t even come close to pushing warlock of the top

Now do it for every other raid encounter, each GM NF, master LS, PvP modes, gambit, etc. Then you can proclaim your “best” class. But again, my point was only ever that personal play style and preference trumps any slight advantage one may gain in specific situations.

You said there is no best class. There is. There will always be a best and a worst unless they are exactly identical

No, because people’s play styles and preferences are the most important aspect. Bungie did a solid job balancing the classes, each has unique aspects that some may prefer over others.

Meta doesn’t care about your playstyle obviously if you suck at meta then you shouldn’t use it but doesn’t change it being meta