It's not all Trials fault some are core pvp problems that might not motivate players to try/play. Like now if you arent winning there is no point to bang your head agains the wall trying to get better when facing 3 peekers, lag (latency, killtrading) or cheaters or any cheesy tactics (like stasis assers dive, crystal overshield spammers etc.) or just teams that are lightyears ahead of you in skill level on your first card. Also, supers arent helping and that special ammo dont reset between rounds. First 3 rounds are ok gunplay then its just chaos reach after chaos reach every round or other annoying super. I like and hate Trials because it is challengin there is no easy mode and biggest reward is winning the match which I think it should be, weapons are bonus to show that victory. I like D2s gunplay but imo there are too many things that break this. Edit: Maybe some loot changes could be made to 3v3 modes so players would actually practice before jumping to Trials. 6v6 isn't good practice.

Great list… But the problem is more deep rooted than this. Players are jumping because they hate being fodder for anyone. The game needs balanced while retaining the crit advantage. Like in d1. Raise body damage on non meta non hand cannon weapons. This gives the sense of hope when a player gets lucky instead of punished to the point of irritation when a player just turns and magically two taps the player that has been shooting them for almost a second. This should not be happening. Yes, it kind of rewards skill for said crit hitter… but said skill is getting a boost due to a casuals weapon of choice doing next to no damage when they had the upper hand. If you want casuals playing, you have to appeal to their connection to the game. Wow moments are created due to a lower skill gap damage system. Wow moments excite players. There are a number of players doing everything they can under the sun to have an advantage… these advantages are more about hitting the right shots with things like anti-flinch and anti-recoil on console and aim bots on pc. Since crits damage is beyond favored in this game… this is why the meta is so narrow and why so many players are not attracted to PvP. Casual players dip their toes in and do not have fun. This is the issue. Sure… making rewards more accessible would have a slight impact… but not for a longer period of time nor consistently. Make the gameplay more accessible and the casuals will play. We have abilities galore… this is not the answer. Weapon balance. This formula worked wonderfully in d1… so the proof is kind of in the pudding.. if you will. Making more loot viable also makes the pve grind have more meaning to more players. Population begins to grow again. A bigger population.. means a healthier pool in said areas of the game. The seasons are falling flat because the loot is next to meaningless in most activities due to this issue. Why be excited when what I get just goes to the vault with the hope that the weapon may be viable one day? This is mostly d2 right now. D2’s PvP is very punishing. Not because we all can not “get gud”… but because maybe a player does not want to shoot another hand cannon OR be at a disadvantage by playing anti-beyond narrow-metas? In d2.. you are mainly a better player with the meta.. or you HAVE to play better with off meta. I love reading these great ideas for fixes… But the true problem is the games damage split.. not the way to get rewards.

I can get behind most of these changes.

Trials needs to be 1000x more rewarding. Losing an Iron Banner match can get you a god roll 68 stat roll armour. You go Flawless you get a 58 stat roll armour piece with every slot at 10...

I’m all for passage of shitter

Can we go back to the D1 system where you got loot drops at the end of every match? Like there was two sets of gear: the Good Gear (which you got at milestones I think?) and the Pity Gear (which you got at the end of each match). More loot drops will make the game mode feel rewarding, and people will be inclined to play it. It really [i]is [/i]that simple.

#3 is a really good idea. Having the chest work like Raid chests would be dope too. I'd add that they make it so you can go back to the lighthouse that week if you go flawless so you can keep on cashing in tokens

Trials definitely needs some love, it is dieing! I agree that once you’ve gone flawless on that character you go in a separate pool of players. Makes it fairer for the more average which make up for most of this game. So 1 fair card per character, then you’ll face people alike after. Stop people gate keeping, b cos I swear some people have nothing else to do except spend there whole weekend playing a trials… I some times match people with 8-9 flawless on my first card of the weekend and I think “ do you take a toilet break or sleep?” Jeez. I used to play a fair bit of trials I got the flawless seal I’ve got unbroken plus gilded twice, and even for me it is a depressing time I play more and more PVE each week then I ever have….. soon (very soon) there will be nothing left to do.

I will never enter PvP again until cheaters are dealt with and dedicated servers at established.

Personally I think the entirety of Trials needs to be reworked. Take this as a reward structure for example: Remove the entire concept of chasing win streaks and replace it with a game card. Play ten games, then visit the lighthouse (yep, that means EVERYONE) and talk to Saint/whoever is standing there, who will stand in front of a giant door. Said giant door will open and will lead you to a chest, open it, then the next giant door behind it will open if you managed to get three wins on your card (in any game). Open that chest, then a Giant silver door will open if you have 5 wins. Open that chest, then walk up to the giant gold door which will open if you managed to get 7 wins on your card. Open THAT chest and you should receive [b]the adept weapon of the week[/b] (again, in any order, with card boosts). Now... if you managed to obtain 10 wins, [b]with card boosts[/b], you should be able to open the platinum door, which should give you a chest with a single ornament piece that is exclusively available for [b]THAT SEASON ONLY[/b], if we live in a perfect world, that ornament set could be permanent and we can have a new set every season, unfortunately we do not live in one, so lets move on. So, lets say that you want to flex the biggest gamer energy ever, and you want to show off the fact that you're the best at PVP. Lets say, there's a card that you can access (after getting 10 wins) and for the sake of it, lets call it: Card of the Determined. This is a card where you have no win boosts, no lose preventions, and the only card that can access the final room. If you managed to obtain 10 wins (aka no losing, complete full on streak), you get to access the big glowing door which should lead you down a hall of your triumphs and successes, hell maybe even dialogue as this is supposed to be the [b]TRUE PVP ENDGAME[/b] which should lead you to a giant chest that allows you to obtain a complete set of the true glowing ornament set from the previous 10 wins chest as well as a choice of your very own ornament to one of the trial weapons (which should look quite noticeable and fantastic mind you) that you have. [i]Without going into much more detail, THIS is what a pvp endgame reward structure should look like. One that can reward both casuals, above average and Trial Professionals/ streamers alike. There might need to be a few more cards like:[/i] [i]Card of Perseverance[/i]: after completing a card, a win will be slotted for your next run for this week only. Effect will stack so long as you keep using this card(side note: you must have at least won a single game for this to be in effect). Wins reset after getting to 10 wins. (another side note: if someone seriously sucks at the game, this is going to take at least 55 games total, hence the title: perseverance. It gives people incentive to keep going so if they suck but want to get to that 10 wins, at least they have the possibility to do so. But if they want the entire set...well...for one character that's 275 games...I wish them luck. Oh and of course, cliff jumpers should be punished and have their card reset instantly if people report/if the system picks up on it.) [i]Card of the Risk Taker/Runner[/i]: Double points on your card, both wins and losses. It makes games go faster, sure, but the catch is you only have 3 attempts per day (hell maybe even 1 attempt). This is good for those who don't have much time to play and can at least try and get something out of it. These are just pure examples on how to improve the card system to make it more meaningful then the current ones we have, not to mention it's kind of hard to use the other cards when you need to hit a certain milestone for them, in other words, get rid of it and allow people to have choice. Last but not least, in order for this to all function: remove win matchmaking. This is probably one of the biggest reasons why no one enjoys trials. As much as Bungie wants to make their own "tournament arc" matchmaking, this just leads to gatekeeping and stops people from progressing altogether, hence this is probably why people cave to recovs or cheating. I'll stop for now since I was going to make a lengthy post on what a Trials rework [i]should[/i] look like, but if there's anything I've got to say about the current state of Trials...well... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhckuhUxcgA [b]TLDR: welp...here we go[/b] [i]git gud[/i] no. [i]you just want free handouts[/i] yep, you got me red handed. Me asking for available loot....in a looter shooter. [i]Trials isn't for everyone[/i] Yet Bungie makes challenges to participate in it, even claimed themselves that they are trying to find incentives for casuals AND it advertises it to everyone when you log in every time it's available. [i]Adept weapons are only for the best players[/i] And yet GMs like "Arms Dealer" exists where you can farm it until you get the best roll possible...if it drops that is... how does pvp adept weapons make the exception here? Ironically, pvp should have the easier choice of the two, not the other way round. [i]Just make sbmm[/i] Ok, real answer, I don't think the population for a pvp endgame can support that. The ONLY way I see this actually functioning is if Bungie wipes the whole pvp gamemode entirely, rework and completely flesh it out, then advertise it for the next month, assuming it's incentivising enough for people to actually play. The alternative is sitting in 15 minute long ques waiting for a proper matchup, only to realise you basically matched up against the same guys who stomped you in your previous game. I don't want to be the doomsayer here but...I don't think that's going to cut it. [b]The actual TLDR:[/b] Trials being called "the PvP endgame" is a complete joke with the current state that it's in, I don't just mean the gamemode alone, but the current situation of the game itself. No dedicated servers, no modifications to the gamemode itself to keep things interesting and fresh, regardless if it's gimmicky or not, weapon and class metas dictating everything is not an enjoyable experience. But the biggest culprit is probably the win based matchmaking that gates people off after 3 wins...or even 1 for that matter. Even after saying all that though, having Flawless vs Flawless matchmaking won't work because they could just jump on another character, let alone an account entirely just to mess with people considering this game is f2p and that you can reset your card at any time. Hell, even if all that ACTUALLY happened, there's still zero incentive for me to play. Sure maybe I'll get a gun or two, maybe decent but not god rolls, but actually playing the gamemode itself? No thanks.

I would like that, but sadly pvp for me in this game, I don’t enjoy it as much as I used to, shotguns or anything that turn health to 0 in a heart beat. Im a casual and I enjoy the way I play pvp but when I look at trials, I get scared I am a panic mess I get in a sticky situation and my aim goes wild sometimes it pays off sometimes it doesn’t, end of the day, it’s too fast for me to get my head around, so me in that oh my aim is gone I would still try it, even if I know I would lose, but I don’t like being thrown aside like I was not even there. So I’m okay with what ever happens to trials, if it works out well that is

Not on topic [spoiler]Waiting for the "I don't watch or see anything related to destiny" reply from AK trying to pretend dmg reply on another thread wasn't the worthless reply it actually was, calling it now[/spoiler]