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6/8/2021 9:27:06 AM
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Could other under used subclasses get buffs so all trees of an element are useful?

I’ve heard recently top tree dawnblade is due for a incoming nerf and I wonder why it’s nerfed. It provides high mobility options and a great roaming super. However I do not see why win rate is a viable reason to nerf this subclass.chaos reach is still very dominant in endgame pvp due to its very fast charge rate and ability to hit through walls sometimes. Not every sub class is good for pvp so I don’t see why under performing ones aren’t provided with better neutral game to match up with other trees in all activities not just pvp or pve. So shouldn’t Bungie buff the weaker subclasses without nerfing the one dominant one? https://youtu.be/dDoWfCbv71k

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  • ChaseyCakesにより編集済み: 6/10/2021 10:46:39 PM
    It's getting nerfed because of its usage and win rate percentage. However no one uses anything else for warlocks other than chaos reach because the neutral game is terrible and is in need of buffs.

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  • Nova Warp super buff

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  • I’m still waiting for bungie to give us the tether buffs they promised us about 2 years ago. Bungie is pathetic. They buffed tether a tiny tiny little bit then said in TWABS they had even more buffs planned for it they would be rolling out soon and big surprise, they never rolled out the other buffs. Lol. Bungie is lazy, cheap, they lie constantly and they can’t program.

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    2 通の返信
    • 0
      KingJules
      KingJules

      she/her - 5/4/2026 12:52:41 AM

      Arc strider. Remove dodge, and make blink one of the jump options. Boost grenade damage. Adds a shock knife; on precision kills, it chains lightning to nearby enemies. Precision kills return the knife.

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      14 通の返信
      • I’m just awaiting the light subclasses rework.

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      • Lol haven't been a warlock long have ya? TTDB is going to be neutered into the ground because Hunters and Titans can't stand the idea of something being better than they are, so instead of getting better, they cry to mommy Bungo who then helps out their dumb, entitled children. Say goodbye to TTDB. It's useless in PvE already unless you're doing jump puzzles or OOB skips in raids. Once it's useless on PvP too, the usage rate will drop like crazy.

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        13 通の返信
        • Demon_XXVIIにより編集済み: 6/9/2021 9:16:31 AM
          [i]”When we can monetise it - we will drip feed/rebuild a single class tree for all 3 Guardian types, changing all current class perks into grindy aspects/fragments (that you’ll have to reacquire) - these skills will be untested, therefore incredibly powerful at first, thereby ultimately bringing imbalance to the core game/content - so we can nerf them after enough complaints via multiple patches” [/i] ~ Bungo On a semi-serious note, everything on a Hunter needs a buff Tether is appalling, & I can’t recall the last time I used Arcstrider

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          11 通の返信
          • This community makes it out like every warlock in the crucible is a top tree main, very rare to find a beastly top tree user outside 3000 glory comp and trials...hel half of the time I’m usually the only warlock in the lobby, plenty of Titans and hunters.

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            2 通の返信
            • The outlier's need nerfed

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              1 返信
              • Warlock dawnblade has had the singular highest Competitive winrate since 2018, thats 3 entire years of dawnblade being the top. Not every class can be balanced for PVP, some classes just are not designed with a PVP focus. The easiest examples of this would be Ward of Dawn and Well of Radiance. No matter how many buffs/Neutral game changes you apply to the subclass, it wont make up for the glaring disparity that is having the ability to wipe entire teams with Dawnblade. This segways into balancing all the subclasses evenly. To create an example, think of when Recluse was around. Recluse was the singular best SMG in the game by far and if all other SMGs were buffed to its level it would have left other weapon types underpowered. The official term for this is called "Power Creep" and it occurs despite every video game companies best efforts when they decide to buff instead of nerf. Some Subclasses just dont scale as well with buffs compared to others. In a vacuum the idea of "Buff dont nerf" is fantastic but you need to remember that Supers are only part of the game as well. If you buff neutral game for every super/Supers that need it suddenly gun play takes a back seat (You saw this with Stasis freeze which the community was blatantly against). If you have one singular strong super/weapon, it doesnt make sense to change the entire game to bring the entire game in line with this strongest super/weapon. That would be like saying that Dead mans Tale being strong means that [b]every[/b] other weapon needs to be buffed to keep up

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                4 通の返信
                • Smallershrubにより編集済み: 6/9/2021 7:26:42 AM
                  I agree in theory but they always seem to overtune balance changes for better or worse anyways. Or they buff some subclasses the same time they nerf other ones and the disparities in performance aren’t dissolved they’re just transferred from one side to another. Nerf behemoth? Now dawnblade is the best subclass. Or chaos reach, or spectral, or whatever.

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                • Im forced to use dawnblade not because its OP like everyone claims. I simply cant use nova warp because its garbage, I cant use top stormcaller because arc web is no longer a viable choice on pvp, the super has an actual ttk, moves very slow and has no range which means anyone with a shotgun melee combo easily trades with me or even kills me. I cant use bottom tree dawnblade because the tree has no synergy and the neutral game is non existent. I cant use bottom tree stormcaller because it has no ionic blink which means its even easier to take down than top tree stormcaller. I cant use well of radiance because its a support tree and not a viable choice in pvp. I cant use top tree nova because the nova is extremely slow and the neutral game is not that great, I cant use bottom tree nova because the super is garbage which is a shame because the devour tree is actually really powerful. What does that leave us with? Stasis which has an OK neutral game and strong super, chaos reach has a good neutral game and strong shut down super and top tree dawn which is the only mobile tree for warlocks with a good neutral game and super. Warlocks only really have 3 competitive options for pvp. Does top tree need a nerf? No, its only meta because its the only warlock class with mobility and the only class in the game that provides players with an aerial playstyle. Titans can have an air playstyle too but need an exotic to make it happen, titans also don’t have an air move to get them out of danger. Majority of warlock subclasses seriously need buffs and a couple of them need overhauls. This goes for all classes too! Not just warlocks. When was the last time anyone ever saw bottom tree nightstalker and though “man this tree is amazing!”? Thats right, never. Anyone seen a mid tree solar titan? Those guys are just as extinct as nova warp.

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                  2 通の返信
                  • I wOnDeR wHy ToP tReE dAwN nEeDs A nErF

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                  • Ha thinking they can buff anything when the cry babies are always looking for a reason to screech

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                  • Wesにより編集済み: 6/8/2021 4:13:47 PM
                    6
                    I mean, this entire time I've been thinking that top tree Dawnblade should have been the standard for light subclasses. Attunement of Sky required a lot more thought and practice than pre-nerf Stasis, and it had a lot to offer. I mean maybe when it's all tied together with the exotics it can get and the really faster super with tracking swords (not as strong tracking as bottom tree, but still), it can be a little much. But calling it "way too hot" makes me think it is going to get a HUGE nerf. I don't think a huge nerf is necessary. I may be able to get behind a minor tweak here and there, but that is it. Makes me worried about of the future of light subclasses honestly.

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                    7 通の返信
                    • They stated that they liked unique builds like the one that Drewsky created, so I hope that whatever the chages are, it doesn’t destroy those types of builds.

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                    • In literally the same podcast that they mentioned toning down top tree dawn they also said they were tweaking underperforming light subclasses and that more fundamental changes to how they are customized, in the vain of a more stasis like system, are also in the pipeline a bit further down. In terms of win rate, I believe that should be the benchmark. Statistically if one subclass is outperforming others in win rate then it's clearly an outlier. That's how statistics work. Now you could argue that they need to buff other subclasses to try to match that of top tree dawn, but that skew things even further toward ability/mobility focused gameplay and away from gunplay which is the foundation of the game. In the podcast they noted that they're going to be heavily looking at mobility tradeoffs and ability regeneration. It sounded like some all around nerfs and changes are coming down the line that would promote buildcraft and speccing and gunplay, which if done right would be a great change for the game imo.

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                      9 通の返信
                      • Light subclasses are getting buffs next season. This has been known for 2 seasons.

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                        4 通の返信
                        • Why is it getting nerfed? Because it's ridiculously strong. Icarus dash has to be the most broken movement ability in the game. Speed, distance, double dodge, and it pretty much makes being airborne which is typically very dangerous not even remotely a problem. Celestial fire is just stupid. High damage and insane tracking. The super oh god the super. The fastest super in the game hands down. Hunters have always been pretty damn strong and for some reason bungie refuses to nerf them and instead gives them more amd more broken toys as the seasons pass by. However top tree dawn blade was still better than any hunter sub class to date

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                          10 通の返信
                          • Top tree dawn should be the standard for most subclasses. Great neutral game but ok super or great super but ok neutral game. In TTD’s case, it has some of the best neutral game abilities, but one of the worst supers (slow travel time projectiles that have a high chance of landing hitmarkers instead of kills).

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                          • Spectraにより編集済み: 6/9/2021 1:01:48 AM
                            In terms of movement, top tree dawn is very strong, sure, but it’s only when combined with transversive steps that it becomes a problem. And it’s not just dawnblade, the same happens to stompee hunters. Even behemoth was very good because it not only had the melee dodge similar to icarus dash but it also had inbuilt pseudo-transversive steps in the form of cryoclasm. And on top of that it had acess to stasis grenades. On other words, in order to nerf movement, the first thing they should look at are movement exotics (which right now are the exotics that everyone at top tier pvp is using) and only then nerf specific subclasses if needed.

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                          • Top tree dawn blade us good in a fair way. Bungie have never gotten a subclass so right. But they can't strike gold twice, so they are tossing out their perfect work.

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                          • Top tree is good for all the right reasons. It has a high skill curve and because of that it's usage rates arent that high while revenant hunters took of 36%of trials. TTD take much more skill to use and rewards more skilled players, it shouldnt be getting nerfed at all.

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                          • It’s bungies bogus game philosophy. “Everything’s gotta have the same feel between game modes” which literally makes no sense. And as a director already said, they take community feedback 2nd, and they do what they want 1st.

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                          • It's getting nerfed because the air dodge is a super strong mobility tool. Personally, I think the only nerf it needs is giving it's air-dodge the same treatment as Cryoclasm: No more cooldown (still one use per going air-borne) but you have to be in the air for at least, like, 0.75 seconds to be able to use it.

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                            10 通の返信
                            • 1
                              all skill tree nerfs based on pvp performance are utter trash until the day sandbox is separated

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