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5/13/2021 1:11:40 PM
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I understand that people are frustrated that there's a grind and a seasonal cap involved with the armor synthesis process, I think that's reasonable frustration that could/should result in some tuning of the process on Bungie's end. But honestly, I can't grasp the reasoning behind the fury and vitriol I'm reading about the armor synthesis process. What did people really expect was going to happen?
People are losing sight of the fact that Bungie, like all game developers, is a business designed to make a profit. They're not a philanthropic organization working towards gaming nirvana for all, they're a profit-motivated corporation. That's an inescapable fact about the gaming industry in general.
A basic understanding of economic principles like supply and demand should have made it obvious how this system was going to be designed. We were told at the beginning that armor synthesis was going to have a paid option as well as ways to earn synthesis in game. The very moment I read that, it was clear that this was the type of system that we'd see. It incentives consumers who are willing to pay instead of dealing with the grind. It's not unfair, it's not a scam, it's basic economics.
If you want to be frustrated, fine. If you want to come to these forums and whine about it to your heart's content, also fine, that's your right. But stop acting like a crime was committed or you've somehow been cheated, because that's not what happened here.
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Ohhh lol that's fair then, sorry I'm a bit dense this morning. I get that you're technically correct, we have already earned the armor pieces before, but those are still available to us at any time through our collections. Being able to add them as universal ornaments is a new feature and, I would argue that (however flawed it is) adding system to earn those ornaments is an acceptable idea.
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Nah, I disagree on gouging. That would imply some sort of unfairness that isn't present in this system. Essentially you're being given a choice with armor synthesis...do you invest your time or your money? That's a common structure in gaming today.
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Simply put, you disagreeing with my point and characterizing me as irrational because I don't agree with you is very obviously opinion and not a fact. To be clear, my opinion on this is simple: Bungie is not inherently wrong in creating both a free to earn path to armor synthesis as well as a faster, paid option through Eververse. They are a for-profit corporation whose main goal is making money. That's not a knock on their company, just a simple fact. The way they have designed the armor synthesis system falls in line with their objectives as a company, but is not popular with the community. All that said though, no one was scammed (which seems to be the predominant whining opinion I've seen around here). I do think it's reasonable to debate the specifics of Bungie's system, specifically related to the amount of grind involved for the free option and the seasonal cap. Those are relevant discussions, but simply ignoring an opinion because it doesn't fit with yours doesn't mean it isn't valid. There. That's my view on this. Do you have anything to add or discuss? Would you like to attempt to justify your opinion about me being delusional or irrational? Or were you just trolling?
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No, I wasn’t trolling. I was not bothering engaging because many people will believe what they want no matter what and having conversation with them is pointless. I thought you were unreasonable and speaking contrarily to what you’re saying now. Yes, I agree they have a right to try to make money. I was in fact, in my mind at least (and I don’t think I did a TERRIBLE job representing that), arguing that it’s too skewed to one side in that paying is much more favorable to playing. I was not debating whether it should exist or if it in concept is unjust. I just feel a person who would disagree with the sentiment that it’s too skewed in favor of profit currently is irrational or delusional. Which is why I offered that. Usually people don’t elaborate, and I apologize for/retract my previous sentiment. I do stand in the camp that the play path is too cumbersome compared to the pay path. It’s not an appropriate ratio of money to play. Paying is the clear path to efficient accrual of template/synthweave materials.
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[quote]Usually people don’t elaborate, and I apologize for/retract my previous sentiment.[/quote] No worries, it's all good. I can get more than a little sarcastic with people around here too lol. [quote]Yes, I agree they have a right to try to make money. I was in fact, in my mind at least (and I don’t think I did a TERRIBLE job representing that), arguing that it’s too skewed to one side in that paying is much more favorable to playing.[/quote] That's a fair interpretation I think. Obviously in these types of situations, the company would want to make it attractive to players to at least consider the paid path, but I'll concede that Bungie may be trying a bit too hard to attract actual dollars. [quote]It’s not an appropriate ratio of money to play.[/quote] Well said, concise way to make your point there. My original post was more directed at those people taking it to the extreme and claiming that they've somehow been cheated, that being forced to do any sort of grind for synthesis materials was too much. I can see where that didn't resonate with you. At this point, I'm a bit cynical when it comes to these forums, people don't often have intelligent discussions involving any nuanced point. Arguing the about the 'ratio of play to money' as you put it is a much too subtle point for many around here. Honestly, I'm guessing that Bungie will tune things after this season to make the play vs. pay paths a bit more equitable after cashing in for the next few months ('listening to player voice' lol). Either way, thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it.
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Well Ubisoft added Transmog to The Division 2 this summer and it is FREE with ZERO GRIND.. Ubi gave it to the community because it was a highly requested feature and they did it as a thank you. When you want to transmog you click on the item then click on mod appearance and every item in that category that you have earned is unlocked to use as an ornament. Simple, no grind, complete system with no greed or sleazy motives. Ubi is not perfect, but they do interact with their community and on occasion give free gifts like a complete Transmog system. Bungie decided to take the sleazy route, by creating an artificial grind in hopes that people will buy silver.. Plain and simple Bungie is greedy and can care less about the community who play Destiny. At this point I hope that Bungie goes out of business and sells Destiny. Maybe we will finally get the game the Destiny deserves to be instaed of this recylced greedy cash grab game.
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There's definitely some valid criticism in your post, problem is it's all overshadowed by your subjective ranting. The main point I would counter with is that just because Ubisoft made a decision regarding transmog doesn't make that the industry standard. Also, when Bungie makes a different decision than Ubisoft, that doesn't mean that their decision is inherently wrong or greedy. I recognize that Bungie most definitely could/should have designed a better, more player-friendly system for transmog. I would also anticipate that they will rework or tweak the system a bit along those lines in future seasons, that this season is a bit of a test run for their transmog ideas. Again though, just because you don't like the system they created doesn't imply inherent greed or disrespect to the playerbase.
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See, the problem is. Free transmog is an industry standard. It is only recently that it has been called into question. Monster Hunter World added transmog for completely free in its later updates. There is also Guild wars 2, which has completely free transmog. Both have some grind but neither are time sink, time locked grinds. The previously mentioned Division 2's completely free tranmog is another example. WoW I'm fairly certain has free transmog as well, though since I haven't played it in almost a decade I could be wrong. It is Activision/Blizzard after all, they may have changed it. Point is, this is how it always goes with this industry. They take a step too far and too greedily, make us feel like they are doing us a favor by rolling it back. Then slowly move the bar for acceptable practices further down in the process. Remember when cosmetics used to be completely free and earned through game play? Maybe you remember when single player games didn't have cosmetic shops? Or how about when lootboxes weren't a thing? Them selling us a game and us expecting features that we want on the game to be there isn't asking too much and it isn't selfish. Many of us paid for this game back when and almost all of us have bought the expansions. The people like you are the reason game companies get away with this. You are worse than an apologizer because you act as though you are being impartial. Personally I love Destiny as a franchise, but what Bungie is doing is blatantly horrible.
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Hamesにより編集済み: 5/13/2021 4:30:00 PMPersonally, I don't think that the examples your giving constitute an industry standard by any means. You're able to point out several examples of other big games who have used free transmog systems, which means that this is a reasonable discussion to have, but that's about it. I would see an 'industry standard' as practice that literally every other company in said industry adhered to. Then, Bungie would be the outlier. That's not the case though, microtransactions for cosmetics (which is what this boils down to) is a very common part of the gaming industry today. [quote]Point is, this is how it always goes with this industry. They take a step too far and too greedily, make us feel like they are doing us a favor by rolling it back. Then slowly move the bar for acceptable practices further down in the process.[/quote] Now, there is something here that I do agree with. I anticipate that, after this season is over, Bungie will make changes to the transmog system in the name of 'player voice' being heard, etc. I agree with you that the pattern created there can definitely be perceived as deception. My only counter to this and much of the rest of your argument is that you seemed to be focused on some of the larger issues with the gaming industry as a whole, rather than this specific system. Once Fortnite became a billion-dollar cash cow on the back of cosmetic microtransactions, there was no going back for the gaming industry in my opinion. Those are for-profit corporations who were given a model to make significantly more money than they were previously, did anyone really think that they weren't going to use that information to their advantage? I do agree, there are definitely gigantic issues with the gaming industry at the core of these discussions. [quote]Them selling us a game and us expecting features that we want on the game to be there isn't asking too much and it isn't selfish. Many of us paid for this game back when and almost all of us have bought the expansions.[/quote] I agree that asking for and expecting things like armor synthesis isn't selfish. My issue isn't with people wanting armor transmog, my issue is with people acting like they've been scammed simply because they don't agree with Bungie's implementation of armor transmog. [quote]The people like you are the reason game companies get away with this. You are worse than an apologizer because you act as though you are being impartial.[/quote] Lol, it's funny that you think you know me based on one comment you read in an online forum. I'm 37 and have been a gamer since the original NES. I remember the simpler times before any microtransactions existed, and if it were in my power to do so, I would definitely take things back to those simpler times. However, since I can't do that, I instead seek to understand the industry as it operates today so that I can make the smartest decision I can with my time and money. I've been a day 1 player of both D1 and D2 and have purchased all the expansions, etc. That said, I've never purchased Silver, and I don't plan to. That's my personal choice, just like everyone else here has that same choice. Whether or not you agree with what I'm saying, I am being impartial. It's reasonable to argue over the specifics of Bungie's transmog system, I agree. However it's not reasonable to chalk the whole thing up to corporate greed and cry about getting scammed. You're just reacting to me like you are the transmog system, it's not what you want to hear or see so therefore I must be the problem lol.
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Understood, however the subjective perspective is shared by significantly more people them just I. Several gaming sites have posted articles regarding the negative response and implementation of Bungie’s system. [url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/258838192?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1[/url] With that said I understand your point that Bungie does not need to follow the community friendly path that Ubi has chosen to follow. However, it seems pretty obvious that they chose the path that they did for other reasons than rewarding the community with a highly requested feature. If they had the best interest of the community in their plan the system would not be a grind with an easier path available for money. Seems to imply something other than generosity for sure and you are correct that it does not imply inherent greed, but it sure does not imply an unselfish plan in my opinion. I agree that they can definitely tweak and create a better system after the test run, so we will see what the result is. Regards
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I like that you collected lots of articles like that. Demonstrates actual thought process rather than the vitriol others are slinging around here. Ultimately, I think that armor synthesis is, and will continue to be, a net positive for the game, though I definitely recognize that this first in-game iteration is definitely flawed. I think that unveiling both a paid and in-game option simultaneously immediately led to people comparing the two and getting upset about the in-game complexity. Had they started with JUST the in-game system, sure people would have argued about the grind but I don't think there would have been the same degree of outrage. Either way, thanks for the actual discussion, I appreciate it.
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I agree with you to a point, but there is one key problem with the system as it stands. The core player base hurts the worse in this, We buy seasonal expansions, season passes, and most likely eververse items like synthweave to experience all the "content" the game has to offer. So Bungie is triple dipping into their core playerbase which seems excessive imo. The price is high to get and do all the things you want in destiny and I don't think its fair for core players to be triple dipped into. But yes, they are a business and of course they have to charge for things, but I think they could do it in a better way then they are. No other game really charges for base game content, season passes, materials, and ornaments all at once, games that have season passes are typically free games for all the base content, bungie is charging for DLC's and season passes and on top of that, eververse. So I get people's frusteration with synthesis especially if they are already branding it as content for this season
