{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
4/6/2021 6:08:30 PM
56
Why is having a “META” a good thing? Like at all? Why should only a few weapons be truly useful?
Shouldn’t [b][u]ALL[/u][/b] weapons be useful in their own respective ranges? Wouldn’t [b][u]ALL[/u][/b] weapons being effective increase diversity of loudouts and play styles?
Again [i]why[/i] does a “META” exist?
English
-
Meta’s exist naturally, there is literally nothing anyone can do to change that. No matter how perfect balanced everything is there will always be something that’s at the top, that’s just the nature of gaming. Every single game in existence has some form of meta picks, wether it’s the best gun to choose or the best build or in fighting games the best character. It’s impossible for any game to have zero best options
-
[quote]Meta’s exist naturally, there is literally nothing anyone can do to change that. No matter how perfect balanced everything is there will always be something that’s at the top, that’s just the nature of gaming. Every single game in existence has some form of meta picks, wether it’s the best gun to choose or the best build or in fighting games the best character. It’s impossible for any game to have zero best options[/quote] I suppose when considering all the options tied not just to guns, a top something is bound to emerge. But my focus is on making guns more equal within their given rolls/ranges. I’m just tired of the constant shifting of what is and what is not viable in this game. Why can’t I use what I want,[i]and[/i] it be effective?
-
I mean you 100% can use whatever and still be successful. You can use sidearms and still go on killing sprees (Got hate mail last week using the IB one) Your not forced to use 120’s, Suros still kills them somewhat easily and that’s no longer a meta weapon. If your talking about raids and stuff, You can’t expect every weapon to do damage comparable to the top tier options. DARCI ain’t rivalling Xeno for damage numbers no matter how much you like DARCI
-
[quote]I mean you 100% can use whatever and still be successful. You can use sidearms and still go on killing sprees (Got hate mail last week using the IB one) Your not forced to use 120’s, Suros still kills them somewhat easily and that’s no longer a meta weapon. If your talking about raids and stuff, You can’t expect every weapon to do damage comparable to the top tier options. DARCI ain’t rivalling Xeno for damage numbers no matter how much you like DARCI[/quote] Well I suppose my biggest gripe comes down to crucible META and the weapons required to run lost sectors/champions. I consistently don’t use the META and end up paying for it. But I refuse to use what I don’t want to use, no matter how “strong” it is. I believe all weapons should be equally viable within their respective ranges and roles.
-
For most of PvE there isn’t really a meta and against champions that changes depending on the artifact. This season Le Monarque trumps literally everything ever released against Overloads but next season that’s gone. Any bow can deal with Overloads though so there’s non ”real” meta. The last wish bow isn’t better then every other bow for instance.
-
[quote]For most of PvE there isn’t really a meta and against champions that changes depending on the artifact. This season Le Monarque trumps literally everything ever released against Overloads but next season that’s gone. Any bow can deal with Overloads though so there’s non ”real” meta. The last wish bow isn’t better then every other bow for instance.[/quote] And if a player doesn’t like bows?
-
Then they use SMG’s, as the the only other Anti Overload mod. This isn’t what a meta is though... Being forced to use one of the Artifact weapons is a design choice that changes every season. These are not weapons that are superior to everything else. 120’s ARE meta PvP weapons, Bows in PvE ARE NOT meta weapons.
-
We are having two different conversations. The unifying point is gameplay must change or the player is at a disadvantage (in PvP) or is unable to complete or clear content like lost sectors and other dens of champions (in PvE). METAs are a ridiculous thing to have if Bungie is actively balancing their game. The existence of a META encourages players to use it or accept a disadvantage. Champion mods force a player to use certain weapons in order to clear content. Both of these things impact a player directly. I’m saying it’s a negative impact. I’m saying get rid of both. Why people enjoy being told what to use I will never understand. If the point is not to have choices, then eliminate the ability to choose. Because the whole “play the way you want” thing is a joke.
-
No YOU seem to be taking about two different things. Your first point being META weapons like 120’s in PvP now and 450 Auto’s a few seasons back ect. THESE are meta weapons and this only changes depending on what’s strongest. Meta’s only change when buffs or nerfs happen as something will ALWAYS the best strongest option. Nerf 120’s and we’ll have a Pulse rifle meta with high impacts destroying everything. Nerf those and it’ll turn into a sidearm/SMG meta as you’ll be able to close distances way easier. Your second point is the semblance of choice, this has NOTHING to do with meta weapons at all. THIS is a design choice wether that’s a good thing or not I don’t know. I have no issue using specific weapons to clear specific content. You can clear like 95% of the PvE content with any weapons you want. Patrols/Strikes/Nightfalls/Dungeons and everything in between. The ONLY places where you need specific weapons are certain parts of the raid (Specifically bosses) which is obvious btw. Just because you like to use Deathbringer, Truth or Thunderlord doesn’t mean they’re going to do damage equal to Xeno, Izanagi or Anarchy. Even if every exotic had identical DPS numbers there will STILL be clear winners due to ease of use. The other place being in activities with champions which by the looks of it is your TRUE problem. The lower levelled activities with champions don’t need specific weapons to kill them either (Battlegrounds ect) so only the hardest nightfalls/lost sectors require you too use specific weapons. Most of these activities require fireteams so if they run the right mods YOU can use whatever you want. Legend lost sectors are literally the only place where you as an individual are forced to run specific weapons as you have to solo those but these aren’t the most challenging encounters anyway.
-
[quote]No YOU seem to be taking about two different things. Your first point being META weapons like 120’s in PvP now and 450 Auto’s a few seasons back ect. THESE are meta weapons and this only changes depending on what’s strongest. Meta’s only change when buffs or nerfs happen as something will ALWAYS the best strongest option. Nerf 120’s and we’ll have a Pulse rifle meta with high impacts destroying everything. Nerf those and it’ll turn into a sidearm/SMG meta as you’ll be able to close distances way easier. Your second point is the semblance of choice, this has NOTHING to do with meta weapons at all. THIS is a design choice wether that’s a good thing or not I don’t know. I have no issue using specific weapons to clear specific content. You can clear like 95% of the PvE content with any weapons you want. Patrols/Strikes/Nightfalls/Dungeons and everything in between. The ONLY places where you need specific weapons are certain parts of the raid (Specifically bosses) which is obvious btw. Just because you like to use Deathbringer, Truth or Thunderlord doesn’t mean they’re going to do damage equal to Xeno, Izanagi or Anarchy. Even if every exotic had identical DPS numbers there will STILL be clear winners due to ease of use. The other place being in activities with champions which by the looks of it is your TRUE problem. The lower levelled activities with champions don’t need specific weapons to kill them either (Battlegrounds ect) so only the hardest nightfalls/lost sectors require you too use specific weapons. Most of these activities require fireteams so if they run the right mods YOU can use whatever you want. Legend lost sectors are literally the only place where you as an individual are forced to run specific weapons as you have to solo those but these aren’t the most challenging encounters anyway.[/quote] METAs and champion mods are the same in so far as limiting player choice. Sure, both can be ignored if the player is ok with 1) being at a disadvantage 2) not being able to clear certain content Your opinion on whether you find such arrangements good or not a big deal are irrelevant. As that is your opinion. My opinion is limiting factors such as METAs and champion mods ruin the game, but as an opinion is just as irrelevant. What [b][u]IS[/u][/b] relevant however is the [i]fact[/i] that gameplay must be tailored in certain situations to play certain content. Whether that includes using a weapon you don’t like to handle champions, or whether you end up using a certain weapon because it outperforms others, the choices of the player should not be infringed upon. If Cayde were alive, would he use a different gun than the Ace? No. Weapons define your character. You should be able to play how you want, not bow to the whims of Bungie or people like you that think it’s “no big deal.” A properly balanced weapon system would see greater variety of builds and loadouts. But go ahead and keep using your META and rotating champion guns. 🙄 “Git gud or get over it,” right?
-
[quote]It's not a good thing. It's not intentional, it's a result of improper balancing.[/quote] Absolute truth about balancing. Not sure about the “intentional part,” as Bungie fiddles with weapons all the time, sometimes based on usage rates. Perhaps they are seeking balance and using us to play test it?
-
Literally every single FPS game has a meta. There is no such thing as perfect balance. You may be able to get closer than we are now but a meta has always existed since before Halo CE was even a concept and will continue to exist as long as FPS games exist. Suck it up.
-
I’m not denying the game could have a [i]more[/i] balanced meta, but there always will be some best weapon in the game, and all I’m saying is it’s a waste of time to ask for a “perfectly balanced meta” because it’s never going to happen.
-
[quote]Literally every single FPS game has a meta. There is no such thing as perfect balance. You may be able to get closer than we are now but a meta has always existed since before Halo CE was even a concept and will continue to exist as long as FPS games exist. Suck it up.[/quote] So, the META exists because Bungie can’t/won’t balance their game, gotcha. It’s just math. TTK should be comparable on every weapon type and archetype within their respective ranges. There’s no reason a sidearm should outdo an SMG based on TTK alone. It should come down to player skill, and more importantly, player choice. Your whole “FPS have METAs so tough” attitude is the very reason Bungie chooses not to do better. There will always be a META because....BECAUSE! Yeah, go take your “give up or git gud” mentality somewhere else. Because legitimate feedback, you aren’t giving right now.
-
If it were so easy, it would have been done. And there are dozens and dozens of different weapons and weapon archetypes, as well as hundreds of roll combinations. Destiny is rather complex. If everything was as easy to balance a ms you make it seem, it would have been balanced and other games would be balanced.
-
[quote]If it were so easy, it would have been done. And there are dozens and dozens of different weapons and weapon archetypes, as well as hundreds of roll combinations. Destiny is rather complex. If everything was as easy to balance a ms you make it seem, it would have been balanced and other games would be balanced.[/quote] It will never be done and that has nothing to do with the complexity of Destiny. It has everything to do with Bungie as a company. They are lazy. They do the least amount of work they can, and charge the most they can for it. Bungie has a lot of weapons available in the game. Normally I would consider that a huge plus in their favor, but with only a few of those weapons actually mattering at any one point in the life of destiny, it’s actually pretty sad. A lot to look at, so very little to use. They aren’t even trying at this point. They know that the addicted playerbase will pay for whatever they serve up, no matter how half-baked or raw it is. Their attempts at balancing are embarrassing.
-
[quote]I think it has to do with the complexity of Destiny 2. Because there are literally thousands if not millions of combinations that you have to balance, which is pretty impossible.[/quote] I think this is an excuse. First of all, who put all of these options in the game to begin with? Why would you add things that you had no intention of balancing because it would become too complex? Isn’t this a reason to go back to the drawing board and rethink the entire system? Why do people allow Bungie to dictate what is and what is not useful when they claim you can play however you want?
-
[quote][quote]I think it has to do with the complexity of Destiny 2. Because there are literally thousands if not millions of combinations that you have to balance, which is pretty impossible.[/quote] I think this is an excuse. First of all, who put all of these options in the game to begin with? Why would you add things that you had no intention of balancing because it would become too complex? Isn’t this a reason to go back to the drawing board and rethink the entire system? Why do people allow Bungie to dictate what is and what is not useful when they claim you can play however you want?[/quote] It is a looter shooter... with a large PvE aspect. The lots of guns with different abilities is a big draw. This game isn't just PvP. No one is forcing you to play a certain way. Bring a sidearm into PvP for all I care. They aren't half bad. Heck, all weapons are viable in some way.
-
[quote]It is a looter shooter... with a large PvE aspect. The lots of guns with different abilities is a big draw. This game isn't just PvP. No one is forcing you to play a certain way. Bring a sidearm into PvP for all I care. They aren't half bad. Heck, all weapons are viable in some way.[/quote] Right. No one is forcing me to use the seasonal artifact weapons on champions. No one is forcing me to use the META in crucible or NF or raids, etc. Nah, I just suffer a penalty for NOT using those weapons, and in some cases (champions) cannot complete the content. Look I’m a huge advocate for using stuff other people don’t. I like using stuff outside the box, but when I’m told I can’t for certain content in a game ,that suggests my options are limitless, I get pretty upset. I mean, are my options limitless? Or are they limited? Because you literally can’t have both. [spoiler]My options are limited. This is done [i]intentionally[/i] by Bungie. Don’t believe me? Look at what gets buffed or nerfed. How much does the playerbase decide? Look at the seasonal artifact. I never chose which weapons recurved access to champion mods.[/spoiler]
-
[quote][quote]It is a looter shooter... with a large PvE aspect. The lots of guns with different abilities is a big draw. This game isn't just PvP. No one is forcing you to play a certain way. Bring a sidearm into PvP for all I care. They aren't half bad. Heck, all weapons are viable in some way.[/quote] Right. No one is forcing me to use the seasonal artifact weapons on champions. No one is forcing me to use the META in crucible or NF or raids, etc. Nah, I just suffer a penalty for NOT using those weapons, and in some cases (champions) cannot complete the content. Look I’m a huge advocate for using stuff other people don’t. I like using stuff outside the box, but when I’m told I can’t for certain content in a game ,that suggests my options are limitless, I get pretty upset. I mean, are my options limitless? Or are they limited? Because you literally can’t have both. [spoiler]My options are limited. This is done [i]intentionally[/i] by Bungie. Don’t believe me? Look at what gets buffed or nerfed. How much does the playerbase decide? Look at the seasonal artifact. I never chose which weapons recurved access to champion mods.[/spoiler][/quote] Oh no. There exists a couple limits, and a few self imposed limits. If you want to do hard content, you have to bring good weapons built for that content. You except to bring a SMG for boss damag? No. You have to bring boss damage weapons if you are on a lfg team. If you are on matchmaking, bring what you want.
