With all due respect i have infinitely more time and achievements in pve alone than you. I play both pve and pvp A LOT. And have done for years. PVE cant sustain this game alone. It may do for somebody that plays casually like you but pvp has kept me and my clan playing for 6 years now. Pve is always very easy and over so fast. The new raid was easy and we beat it day 1. The raid seal is easy and doesnt require flawless. We got 1 new strike. We dont have anything else. The season is a joke. Its actually a sick joke, it is beyond tragic. Its HVT patrol missions with horrific weapons. I cant help but grin when people say its a pve game. If it is, then you are deeply mistaken. Pve is redundant without pvp. Pve is so easy and shallow, it only exists to fuel builds for pvp. Pve doesnt require builds. Its ai. Everything is easy. Gms exist for shards and exotics which are not needed for pve. Player vs player is the only time when loadouts and stats matter. Pvp is tougher than pve which is why so many hate it. Its because theyre bad. They cant handle the fact that they invested so much energy into their characters yet theyre trash compared to others. Their egos cant handle it. Instead of understanding its potential like many top pvp players and even ya fav streamers, they cry its a pve game. But why? LOL what do you even do? I have done everything in pve, its lifeless now. It was lifeless after the new raid day 1 got beat. Do you run patrols? Run strikes? Create builds? What for? Dregs? Nothing is a threat in pve. So call destiny a pve game all you want, objectively, as somebody who is well versed in both facets of the game, im telling you that the game would have and would still die a very swift death should it solely rely on pve. You cant use your little time spent in pve and almost non existent time in pvp to suggest that destiny is solely pve. Its laughable in all honesty. Remember, i play both pve and pvp and have accolades in both modes. The people who just touch one mode dont really have a say in the matter, just like people who 'play solo'. Its your choice but you dont get to dictate shit if you arent living its truest nature. If the pve was robust then id toast you, but pve is -blam!-ing dire and always has been. Forsaken was heading in the right direction but these days its just mind numbingly easy, its a participation trophy sim.

Yeah...I think the numbers of players playing will always reflect the state of PVP not PVE. If Destiny 2 were just a PVE game, it wouldn’t be a very good one. I think PVE mains need a reality check. Without a raid, PVE doesn’t really have a leg to stand on. The whole “PVP in a PVE game” excuse is garbage. I started playing D2 just to do the campaigns, but PVP kept me in the game for hundreds of hours. Without PVP, this game is not worth $10. There seriously are better options in Steam for $10 or less. PVE mains are the ones who get the most ripped off by Bungie, but are the ones who come out to defend Bungie for garbage PVP.

I'm not defending Bungie's garbage PVP but i understand that its not about PVP. Destiny is and always will be a PVE focused game. You could easily remove every PVP aspect within Destiny and still experience the core aspect of the game which lies within its PVE focused story. You say without PVP this game isn't even worth 10$ well i'd say without PVE this game wouldn't even be worth playing because as you said yourself ''Garbage PVP''

Destiny has gunplay, abilities and movement that can really only shine in PVP. PVP is an important part to Destiny and it would not be the same without it. Grinding PVE for PVP god rolls and the best guns for PVP can be a much longer task than grinding for PVE god rolls. At the end of the day, most legendaries do the exact same job in PVE, no matter the roll. The problem isn’t being a PVP main in a PVE game per say. The problem is Bungie neglecting to do much of anything with PVP. We know what Bungie is capable of. They can make great and rewarding content in PVP. They can make balances that are needed and help keep the meta fresh. But they don’t. You could argue that Destiny is PVE game only because Bungie seems not understand the importance of PVP. At its core, Destiny is both PVP and PVE. I disagree that they made PVP too important. Bungie can really do whatever they want with the lore and they’ve made PVP into a great part of it. PVP is also longevity. Look at any other FPS multiplayer, you’re not playing them for their PVE. If a game feels fun to hop on and play, like Destiny can be because of its great gunplay and abilities and are pretty different from a lot of other games, people will keep coming back to it. And the way Destiny is, if people enjoy PVP, it’ll just lead them into other aspects of the game like all the PVE content there is because that’s where the god rolls come from

The issues lies within believing Destiny is PVE and PVP at its core because its not. A example of a game that's PVE and PVP at its core is something like World Of Warcraft. Within that game both PVE and PVP are an integral part of the game but also integral part of the story/lore because you have factions willing to kill each other. Destiny ISN'T about killing your fellow Guardians. It isn't even about training against your fellow Guardians. This is something that's presented as a OPINION but not a vital part of Destiny's core function. When you advertise or explain to someone what Destiny is you're not telling them ''Its a game about shooting other players'' saying so would be inherently false. When i started playing Destiny 1 around launch date i didn't pick up the game because i wanted to shoot other players. I picked up Destiny because i was intrigued by the story it was trying to tell me. But Bungie in combination with the community kept elevating its PVP aspect. Things like Iron Banner was introduced, Trials was introduced, New Exotics were tied to PVP objectives, A new PVE mode Gambit was introduced with PVP in it. And that also introduced new Exotics tied to Gambit with PVP objectives to fulfill. So everywhere you went PVP kept being elevated up to a point that now you have a divided community that clashes with each other because Bungie can't balance its PVP sandbox without -blam!-ing up the PVE sandbox. But they also aren't stupid. They new that Stasis would -blam!- up PVP because it wasn't designed with PVP in mind. It was their shiny new PVE toy to ensure that Beyond Light sells. Within PVE Stasis works exactly as intended. So Crucible being -blam!-ed up right now is a logical outcome because they didn't want to bother with making it balanced for a game mode it wasn't designed for. In short though you have to accept that Bungie might not be able to balance Stasis without -blam!-ing up the PVE sandbox and the PVE sandbox takes priority in a game such as this.

Problem is that most of their players play for the pvp. The viewers on destiny double or triple when trials comes out every week. People like myself enjoy pve but would not play this game if it didn’t have pve. Bungie needs to realize that fixing pvp will fix all of their problems and turn the community to their side:)

I think it is to late now. Once people break away from Destiny I do not think many come back. I was a pvp main with 2850 hrs and they could fix pvp and I would still not come back. A big difference now versus before is that even with free-to-play the numbers are dropping. Players are leaving and the free-to-play and dlc are not bringing in new players and the dlc is not keeping veterans.

I always tell myself that I am gonna quit but I always come back because there is no other game like destiny... there are so many people who would come back if the crucible was balanced.