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Destiny 2

Destiny 2 について話し合おう
6/12/2020 4:34:08 PM
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A theory as to explain why we'll face no Physical embodiment of the Darkness, Just ourselves and our fears:

Yes that title is a bit vague and phrased weirdly, but I'd like to present a theory. For years now, at least since Black Armoury, we expected to face an actual being when the Pyramids arrived. Well I believe we were wrong. And Season of Arrivals sheds light on that (pun not intended): Also: spoilers for those who haven't completed the introductory mission into this season. Anyways. So, let me elaborate on a point I made earlier. For years we had debated as to whether these Pyramids are actually Ships or an Entity akin to the Traveler. We now know it's the latter. During the cutscene that follows the Introductory mission for Season of Arrivals, this conversation between Ghost and Zavala occurs: [quote]Ghost: According to Spectral Analysis, the Pyramid....It's Propulsion... The energy it's manipulating on Io... I don't see a ship. I see a being... Paracausal in Nature. Zavala: Like the Traveler. Ghost: All Records of the Golden Age agree. On the first day, the Sky filled with darkness. On the Second, the Traveler fell.[/quote] What we have deep within Luna, above the Echo Messa, and soon to be above the Fields of Glass, Archology and Hellas Basin; are dark Travelers. Paracausal opposites to our divine god that hangs above our last "safe" bastion. Now this is where we talk about the inside of the Pyramids, as they are a key problem with this theory: well, the Pyramids have corridors that go within, but no defences other than the Nightmares (which we'll get to shortly). Well remind yourselves of the philosophies of the Light and the Darkness. The Light and the Traveler follows the idea of complexity in the universe and that Life should be allowed to live freely with equal value and the freedom to do what they please. The Darkness and the Pyramids follow the Sword Logic; the idea that only the strong should live in the perfect universe. The pawns of either side follow and reflect these philosophies (except for the Awoken, who waver in the middle, walking that thin line between both sides. The Grey Line). The Darkness's ideal is a simple one, kill or be killed. Survival of the Fittest if you will. So it's inside workings are going to be simple corridors that lead up to what might be it's physical embodiment from the Garden, the Winnower). And if you look inside the Traveler, it reflects it's own ideals of complexity. The inside of the Traveler is mechanical. Complex in view. Now what about the champions, that's the main point of this post: The Traveler believes in complexity and Life; so It's champions are of course going to be the Guardians. Beings brought back to life to reflect the complexities of existence and to overcome it, showing how Light can prevail. So what about the Pyramids? Well, I believe the Pyramid's champion are none other than the Nightmares. The Pyramid believes in the Sword Logic, or the basic foundation that became the Sword Logic. So why use Nightmares? Why use these...phantoms that clearly deny the Pyramid's very ideology to forge their champions by? Well, it's because of us. We have time and time again proven we are far more than capable of being the top of the pyramid of the Sword Logic. The Winnower has even gone out of it's way to call to us. Try to sway us to it's side. To make us it's new champions, physical ones. So why not tempt us by using our fears and enemies of time before to prove that point. Remind us that we have mastered the Logic of the Sword and become more than Legend. An attempt to cross that very thin line. The Winnower has seen us in a similar light to what Calus has, a potential asset of immense power. Those who have made dealings with the Darkness have become devote. Worshiping it. Oryx. Calus. Commander Kuang Xuan. The crew of the Kentarch-3. But that only explains the current "champions"; I'd like to suggest that maybe it's used this method before. But not in the same way. Cayde-6's journal, that was sold with the physical edition of the Taken King expansion contains this quote: (thanks KSeth for finding me the quote) [quote][b]I'm out in plain sight. Sky is torn open and there's nothing and nobody left in this ruined world but me and the boiling shadow all around. [/b]Whatever it is hits me before I can level my gun. [b]Doesn't matter. Tendrils of pain crawl over my splayed fingers, my outstretched arms, my shoulders, my neck, my screaming mouth as it consumes. I'm being enveloped. Everything is wrong.[/b] Primordial. My systems go sideways. All but my sensors. It wants me to witness this, the world. It's world now. [b]Suffocating in the black poison.[/b] I collapse. We all collapse.[/quote] First things first; there are two lines that reflect this idea of the Sky filling with Darkness. But more importantly is the line in the middle: [quote]Doesn't matter. Tendrils of pain crawl over my splayed fingers, my outstretched arms, my shoulders, my neck, my screaming mouth as it consumes. I'm being enveloped. Everything is wrong[/quote] Why and how could this be his Nightmare? or at least a Nightmare ripped from his psyche? Ace in the Hole: [quote][b]This one's for the minds behind the Deep Stone Crypt. You think just 'cause you made me, you can unmake me? Hey, I understand. I were you, I wouldn't want people knowing what I did either. [/b]Guess you better hope I didn't tell anyone about the crypt. Or about the, uh, what was it? Oh yeah… Long Slow Whisper. 'Cause if I did, that would be real bad for you, huh? I may be dead, but I guarantee you ain't heard the last of me.[/quote] I believe this whole Nightmare he was consumed by was a Nightmare of the feeling of being in the Crypt and having not much control of his life. Whilst we don't know how the Crypt works exactly, we know it involves something along the lines of: [quote]I came here flesh and bone.[b] Gave everything to the ice.[/b] [b]Started over[/b]. Rebooted.[/quote] I realise there's probably more context to it than that from the Journals which were written back in 2015, but i believe this whole, idea of consumption is a metaphor for how he was affected by the Crypt. And that pain being the pain of transfer. Obviously we know that the Exo's aren't just robotised humans (Human bodies converted straight into robots) but that mind/memory transfer is required to make an exo. His consumption being the consumption of his actions, his will basically going and being at the whim of the Brays. Possibly. We know he hated them. And Nightmares aren't just developed through Fear; but hate and other negative emotions. Now, on it's own that's kinda lacking in evidence. So let's look at the other account of the Collapse that we have: The Black Armoury Pages, written by Henrietta Mayrin. Entry 71, Black Armoury Journals: [quote]Last night we awoke in the middle of the night to the sound of something pounding on the walls. It roared and stomped and howled in frustration… until it found the doors. They didn't hold. I never saw it. We were too occupied blindly firing around a corner. I just remember the smell of wet earth, and a sound I've never heard before. Like a machine being stretched and then compressed.[/quote] Now, I don't think this is some kind of beast attacking per say. But the embodiment of what Henrietta specifically may consider a monster. Exo's. To provide some context to these claims, we need to jump back. Henrietta didn't want to make the Black Armoury into some kinda of dealership. A weapon's factory of sorts: Entry 41: [quote][b]But I didn't ask to build a mobile weapon factory.[/b] I didn't come up with the idea. Helga and Yuki did. Suffice it to say, lately we haven't been agreeing on things as much as we used to. We're growing fast. Too fast. Which means mass production. Which in turn means less control over our work. How it's distributed, who it's distributed to, etc. [b]It means more weapons to defend ourselves, yes, but not in every single person's hands. That was not my vision. Power without control leads to chaos. It's a give and take.[/b][/quote] Now, why are these relevant to the Nightmares? well, here's why; Entry 50: [quote]Today I gave Helga a piece of my mind. She came to me with another "opportunity" for the Armory. Another chance to increase our production.[b] But this project is really crossing a line for me. Exos. I never liked the idea of them in the first place. They're not Humans. They don't have a soul. [/b]They're nothing but the experiments of Humans playing God. Since when has that gone well? [b]If one day they decide they don't like the rest of us, what recourse do we have? It'll be slaughter. Thinking about combining that technology with ours makes me sick.[/b][/quote] Her perception of the Exo's is one of soulless monsters. She thinks them more as beasts. Beasts that could conquer Humanity easily. A boot to an ant kinda deal. And she says this: [quote]I just remember the smell of wet earth, and a sound I've never heard before. Like a machine being stretched and then compressed.[/quote] What if that "wet earth" is made from blood and liquid residue from the Nightmares. The sound? The sound of the doors to the Niobe Labs being closed; or even just the twisted nightmares of the Exo's approaching the Founders of the Armoury. Continued Below:

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  • Also: [quote]It roared and stomped and howled in frustration[/quote] We know Exo's lose their minds after being reset. This could be an exaggeration of how Henrietta perceives the exos. She calls them not human. And also: [quote]If one day they decide they don't like the rest of us, what recourse do we have? It'll be slaughter. [/quote] Her perception of the Exo would be strong and ready to kill those they see that aren't other exos. So of course these monsters that attack her are ones that she's created in her mind. One's she's feared. We even see it through her relationship with Adelaide in her new Exo body. She doesn't like it at first. Even refusing to talk to her at times. So why wouldn't the Nightmare created from her mind be one she despises. As we've already established, Nightmares are drawn from our psyche, and not just what we fear; but things we have shown negative emotion towards. But alas, this is all but a theory. I'd like to hear what you all have to say below. I'm of the perspective where I like this theory, but actually hope it to not be the case. So yes. Thank you for reading. Stay Safe.

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    • I think we do fight a physical embodiment of the darkness in the future or we might get introduced to a completely new race, who are worshipping and have more relationship with the darkness. their connection with the darkness might be higher than hive or vex. how am i so sure?. Look at the latest voice lines of eris and drifter. the dialogues might not be accurate Eris - the hive would be growing larger and more powerful because of the darkness. drifter- Look 3 eyes, I have battle the dark, the hive are NOT the dark. eris- the hive are children of the darkness. this interaction is important as this actually hints a new enemy race coming to destiny which is the darkness or have a much stronger connection to dark than hive or the vex.

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      • I'm reality, bungie just doesn't want to design a new enemy race lol. it'll be AI guardians with a dark mist or some shit

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      • OP seems like a pretty cool guy.

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      • In the sage words of Pahanin Errata: I'll punch it too.

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      • Dark link/guardians?? 🤔

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      • MC 077 Lasombraにより編集済み: 6/12/2020 7:10:48 PM
        I don’t think it was Exos. The pyramid ships have interior hallways, doors and lights. Landing pads. Things you would never build unless you planned on having people in them. Oh wait, wasn’t there an entry about Darkness possessing dead bodies one? In the BoS there was the implication of more then one Traveler. Perhaps a by product of the multiple timelines? Or could a gifted person grow enough to claim the title? As for TTK, I wouldn’t rely on it for the Darkness entity itself. Considering at base D2 they didn’t know what it was. So to me, that means that they aren’t going off the preexisting lore. It could have changed. Never know. Another is that the Pyramids are paracausal [i]beings[/i] like the Traveler. So there are entities on each ship and there are quite a few of them. Well the TTK lore there was never any mention of a fleet or multiple higher beings. “The Darkness” was mentioned attacking a fortress world while the Hive watched. The lore now has shown that power can be taken, gods can be caged and defeated and if Ghauls Light-body is anything to go by? Mantled.

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        • Archival Mindにより編集済み: 6/12/2020 6:03:12 PM
          <My thing is the differences between the uses of "I" and "we". I have no doubt that the Winnower's power, and thus the Winnower itself, flows through every ship in that fleet, but there's definitely something more at play. The use of "I" implies a singular entity. IT uses this a lot during Unveiling. There is no other God of Darkness. Just the one. "We" implies multiple beings. I don't think the Nightmares count in that regard. The Nightmares are shadows of their former selves, a hollow and almost emotionless (except the parts that matter to the victim) husk. They are Darkness reformed to fit a certain shape. This unlike, say, the Taken, who are actual beings reshaped by the Dark. There's also the sketch in Cayde's book and the things the Drifter encountered. The former has double jointed legs, yet takes a humanoid shape above, but with spikes on its back. This is nothing like anything we have on Earth. The latter was an entire race that roamed freely and had properties Nightmares lacked. While this is an interesting idea, IMO there are too many coincidences regarding one or even two races to ignore. What I take this as is that each Pyramid is tied to the Winnower for energy.>

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          • I just had a thought. The darkness seemingly shut down Rasputin and I overheard Eris saying that they would only do that if he wasn't a creatable threat to the darkness. So with that line of thinking Mithrax being who he is and what he represents, would also be a credible threat to the darkness because there is a nightmare that IS his mother. What I'm Saying is. Fallen Guardian at LightFall or after.

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          • I was hoping for a new enemy faction this time

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            • I don’t think we actually battle the darkness either. From the very start I thought it was stupid that we thought we are the ‘good’ guys. We are resurrected dead army killing things, for what? Because some dude in a mask said a big ball spoke to him in a dream? Anyways I’m inclining toward the light/dark symmetry balance thing, we defeat the darkness by sacrificing our light, so there is still balance, no one lives immortaly.

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              • I... I think I got here before the “So this is just bungie’s excuse for more reskins” posts. If I understand correctly, the “darkness enemies” are only what the person expects them to be? Like Riven in the “Savin-Who-Was-Chao-Mu” lore card?

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              • PhNx Hellfireにより編集済み: 6/13/2020 12:02:04 AM
                [quote]And Season of Arrivals sheds light on that (pun not intended)[/quote] [url=https://giphy.com/gifs/oj2dsM4jwwJYA]ACHOO![/url] You know it to be true. [quote]What we have deep within Luna, above the Echo Messa, and soon to be above the Fields of Glass, Archology and Hellas Basin; are dark Travelers. Paracausal opposites to our divine god that hangs above our last "safe" bastion.[/quote] Lesson time. The currently accepted theory is the Darkness residing all over the place, is the primordial darkness listed in biblical times. Genesis 1:2 says "The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." (New King James version btw). So if the Darkness is simply trying to snuff out the light? Then they will push back, we will rise up, they will fall, we will reign, they will rise up, they will push back, they will reign. It's an endless theory meant to be the cause of our war(s). The question which remains is the one we have asked since D1: With immortality and endless life cycles, we can still do good and evil. Now the fear was, as a result, people were punished back then for crimes/wars we don't know. Could this be the reason why humanity is forever stretching their arms out towards space? Searching for the "garden" they lost in the distant past, forbidden from ever returning to it like the sins of old? The game is very ironically tying itself to notions of psychology we already know. Why? I personally believe that what we're really searching for still lies ahead. Not the war of light and dark, but our actual "garden". Somewhere in our guardians' future, though there may not be a tree of life, I'd like to think that someday we will fashion a garden with our own hands. One where we can live in peace and happiness. That's the endgame. How to get all sides of the coin balanced BEFORE the book of revelations happen. lol... [quote]The Light and the Traveler follows the idea of complexity in the universe and that Life should be allowed to live freely with equal value and the freedom to do what they please.[/quote] [url=https://giphy.com/gifs/showtime-smile-dexter-dexter10-l2SpWAjkCs4eWy5l6 ]Life should be allowed to live freely[/url]

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                • My theory is that the new enemy are some kind of shape-shifters and that we will face copies of ourselves and NPC; minions will be other guardians, mini-bosses will be Zavala, Ikora, Cayde, etc and the final boss will be us.

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                  • It will definitely be the veil, the 5th race.

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                  • I don't believe that the Nightmares could be considered the Champions of the Darkness. I don't think the Darkness ever got around to replacing Oryx. The Darkness is pulling a Calus on us. It wishes for us to become it's champions.

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                    • Nightmares are VERY physical, wtf? If the Darkness is capable of controlling a sentient and pervasive energy capable of taking shape, intensity, and weight according to what's in your memory, I'm pretty sure they can literally just use the same logical defying paracausal energy to form a scary Darkness monster.

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                    • I really hope this theory isn’t true but it is a good one indeed

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                    • dilligaf941023により編集済み: 6/13/2020 7:49:18 AM
                      One thing you're forgetting though is the creatures that Drifter ran into.

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                    • I just kind of assumed there would not be an actual 'Darkness' entity just as how there is no Light entity. Maybe a Darkness equivalent of a Ghost, but that's kind of the Hive Worms job in a sense. Maybe Darkness champions, as we Guardians are champions of the Light, but not actual physical embodiments of the Darkness.

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                    • but im already having bad dreams about this game.

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                    • I’m not buying it... somebody who leaked Lightfall and has successfully predicted every DLC since The Dark Below says that the enemy we face from the ships are a new enemy called “The Veil”

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                    • 🗿

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                    • Very well done

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                    • Good stuff, Chubs. Something to add to this (based on my opinion): the Nightmares that we may soon encounter may be the Champion versions of what we’ve encountered before. Primordial fear made manifest, like a Lovecraftian shoggoth. It’s not made of organic material; just that funky energy. Real in all sense of the word but also psychologically disturbing when standing in its presence.

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