[quote]Bungie probably KNOWS that sunsetting/retirement isn't the best solution, but is trying to get the best results from what has been inarguably minimal feedback. [/quote] With all due respect----and I TRULY MEAN THIS---because I respect the thought, energy, and effort to be respectful and contstructive that you put into starting this thread. I truly mean that. Your post is truly a breath of needed fresh air....and a light in a dark room filled with baby rage. But with all due respect the issue isn't a lack of feedback, and Bungie isn't doing this because they are operating in a vacuum. They are doing it because they the BROKE a foundational rule of loot game and MMO game development five years ago when they decided to let us keep our gear and infuse it up endlessly. So for FIVE YEARS they have been trying every thing under the sun to manage the game's power and to preserve our desire to chase loot...while NOT taking power away from us. They have tried....and they have failed...and they are simply, finally, admitting that failure.....and respecting that rule of game design. They are doing this because it is the ONLY way to manage power in the game AND motivate us to chase after loot....without breaking the game. They have tried to retire weapons under-the-table (without being forthright with us that this was what they were doing) BY NERFING them now for two years. They are having to abandon that because the player base gets just as angry at the nerf. Because it results in BROKEN weapons that people stop using ANYWHERE in the game...and it creates a game that LURCHES wildly rather than running smoothly. Throw in everything being nerfed to a bland sameness.....and the game's appeal as a loot game is slowly dying away. This has to be done....or this game dies. Its just that simple. The FEEDBACK that Bungie does need, is for us----especially on the PVP side----to point out potential issue that will arise-----like different metas in Trials/Iron Banner versus regular Crucible, and the problem that PVP is power-enabled in Gambit----so that Bungie can REFINE their plans. So that it rolls out more smoothly. But let me make it clear for those who are struggling to interpret Bungie's relative silence on this issue. THIS DECISION HAS BEEN MADE, AND THIS SYSTEM IS COMING. Period. [b]Last week's TWAB was a courtesy.[/b] To let us know that this was coming so that we could adjust our play accordingly in preparation for it. [b]It was not an invitation to a debate on whether or not it should be done[/b]...and those who are thinking they can talk Bungie out of this....or wail so loudly that they'll intimidate Bungie into backing down? Are setting themselves up for frustration and disappointment. Cause it ain't going to happen...and the changes they are making are changes that shoudl have been made years ago. [b] But by all means, lets talk to them and help them turn this into the best version OF THIS SYSTEM possible.....and sand off any transitional pain points Bungie might not have fully considered.[/b] But as a community, we need to [i]calm down[/i] first....and your post is a **welcome** step in that direction.

Nah, Bungie just don't read the forum threads unless it involves 'naming-and-shaming' or CoC violation (and usually more the former rather than the latter, considering how many CoC violations I see in just about every thread I read, but a name-and-shame thread gets locked between the time I see it in the forum threads list and when I actually click on it. ;P) Because honestly, there have been so many good arguments made by players about why sunsetting is objectively bad, as well as multiple ways to deal with 'power creep' that doesn't involve sunsetting... but Bungie will never comment on those threads, just like they never comment on all the threads about players getting DDoSed due to Bungie's use of 'hybrid peer-to-peer'. :P

I think the feedback about sunsetting is pretty clear on the forums and reddit. The only other thing they could do would be in an in-game poll or something like that. It doesnt matter anyway, they are too far down the road with it, they programmed stuff for it to happen, probably designed loot as well, its gonna happen.

Bungie has needed the communties help since Destiny 1 BETA. They have ignored our feedback the entire time until now. They need it but do not want it.

If the only way to make new gear desirable is to devalue old gear, Bungie has a huge problem, power creep or no. This is why players are so worried about this strategy. They just aren’t confident that Bungie can create gear they actually want to use anymore. Their faith in Bungie’s ability to create cool new art and design for new gear has been whittled away by reskins, boring, inconsistent or just plain bad art direction, and constant nerfs due to unbalanced perks that don’t seem to ever get tested before they’re released. Bungie has a LOT of good will to catch up on, we’ll see if this year’s big update finally meets the needs of a game like Destiny.

It's clear they're cutting corners on content to maximize profits. Doesn't matter what we say at this point, they're aware.

[quote]Sunsetting has been proposed by what SEEMS to be a very vocal 10-15% of the community over the course of D2's lifespan. Not many others have really been proposing or trying to theorize for other ideas or solutions to weapon power creep, and those who have just wanna see an evolution on the system we have right now(which, to my knowledge, ALSO isn't working). To sum up the weapon retirement conversation, we have three-ish subjects in the community right now:(nobody really wants armor retirement so I'm just not going to touch that subject) - Weapon retirement needs to happen so that any new loot becomes desirable. - Weapon retirement should not happen because it disrespects the time investment of long-term players. - Weapon retirement COULD happen, but right now the game is not in a good enough place for it to be a viable solution. There could very well be more to it that I'm missing, but those are the three main points of the current discussion. Here's what I think on the subject as a whole(title): Bungie probably KNOWS that sunsetting/retirement isn't the best solution, but is trying to get the best results from what has been inarguably minimal feedback. Going through the various points of criticism for the game, nobody really thought up solutions to the problem of power creep, all we as a community knew was that the game gets less fun every time there's a big nerf that gets dropped. People like Clintus, Paul Tassi, Lono, and 30nstillgaming all suggested Weapon Sunsetting as a solution to power creep, but little else was granted. Similarly to what happened in D1 with the massive special ammo nerfs, Bungie didn't actually receive enough feedback regarding other possible solutions to the subject, and ended up doing the special ammo. nerfs, and eventually, D2Y1 launched with it. Is the current situation the community's fault? Heck no, Bungie's had almost 3 years of Destiny 2 to get the basics right and they squandered it until Activision got dropped. Forsaken and Shadowkeep have been the biggest steps in the correct direction since the launch of the Taken King. What Bungie needs is more feedback. From what I can tell, they ARE listening, but because certain minorities of the community are always more vocal than the vast majority, they end up listening to that small minority that doesn't represent the whole. Bungie needs to have another summit BEFORE the next big expansion drops so they can at least get boots on the ground and get the ball rolling on the game's most important issues.[/quote] Bungie listen? Who? What? Lol Man, sorry, i even liked your post and how you wrote it even if i disagree on some subjects, but...Bungie doesnt care, nor listen its fanbase. Maybe they will hear the money they will not receive for future content.