The conversation continues. Everyone has their own view and experience in the Crucible. Everyone is still arguing about what needs nerfed and what needs buffed. Brace yourselves, because here's my view and opinions as a console player. -------------------- You want to know what I see every day in the Crucible? Hunters, Titans and a little bit less Warlocks. Dust Rock Blues and Mindbender's Ambition (both mostly used by Hunters). Not Forgotten (still, and it still has a ton of range) and Luna's Howl. Recluse and Revoker (because ammo cheese). The occasional Erentil FR4s that will completely dominate the match. One-Eyed Mask and St0mp-EE5. No common Warlock exotic in particular. And users of these items that initially T-bag generally being unimpressive. I'm only going to touch on a few of these things. Upvote or downvote this post if you want. Just stating facts here based on console experience. Not Forgotten has plenty of range and accuracy. Compared to other hand cannons, that one still maps, bug or not. I don't think it needs a buff. Players just need to learn how to make their guns work. We all know it wouldn't be popular still if it didn't work out. Hunters love shotguns. We all know why. It's because their double jump hardly requires you to ready your weapon again, making it easy to jump-shotgun and catch your enemies off guard. Works a good majority of the time. I bet removing Icarus Grip from shotguns would balance that out a bit. Erentil FR4 is so underrated, it should be considered meta. I'm sorry to all of you players who think it's fine, but every time I see that thing in Survival, it devastates the other team, at least on console. There is a low skill requirement to the gun. It's extremely easy to aim and it becomes extremely effective with long-zoom scopes with super-generous accuracy. If you never encounter problems against an Erentil user, you must be facing a casual or their gun just has a bad roll. Either that, or you're a Hunter who jumps around corners a lot. Players seriously use Erentil to hit Legend in Competitive. If you don't see the gun, you are lucky. I've also used the gun. I can tell you from experience using it that it is extremely nasty. Get either Rangefinder or Tap the Trigger with a long-zoom scope and you have a monster. It's also the 5th most-used special weapon in the Crucible as of this post. Check the data. I don't see Telesto that much anymore, but I assure you, it still has plenty of multi-kill potential. I've had a triple-kill in one burst with that gun against full-health Guardians post-nerf. Revoker is ammo cheese. The only time it isn't is when the shot lands. And it's an Aggressive Frame, so someone could easily clean up with something else afterwards if they need to. I see campers with that gun in the Crucible all the time. -------------------- I could go on, but for the sake of post length, these are my top notes. I don't normally make posts like this, but I'm getting tired of seeing players argue about these things in the forums lately. A lot of you just don't get what it's actually like in the Crucible. Look at the data and look at the facts. And keep in mind that matchmaking isn't perfect. It's just like loot RNG. Feel free to leave your comments. I'm probably not going to comment down there since I've already made my point.