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7/16/2019 7:05:51 PM
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How things are being handled right now is this the future of Destiny or what we can kind of expect when Shadow keep drops?
[quote]Sorry you aren't enjoying the Tribute Hall. One of our goals here was to provide players who had a lot of resources with something cool to spend them on. We also wanted to make sure players who weren't swimming around in a Scrooge McDuck vault of materials could do some bounties to bring the cost down.[/quote]
I have noticed a lot of changes have taken place and it's not for the player base benefit and when Cozmo said this it can be easily taken a few different ways on this forum. Opinions are strong on here, to say the least.
I got a question that I feel Bungie can't answer. Does Bungie really know what a meaningful experience means when it comes to a persons time spent in this game? IMO before y2 came about we asked Bungie to provide a more meaningful experience because everything was being handed out like candy. Since then a lot of things went the complete opposite, the cost for certain items was jacked up, resources have been majorly reduced so it's a lot harder to collect certain items, things like the Matrix was removed, factions removed for over a year and no work about them at all. The grind for quests has been way overdone like getting 1500 grenade final blows, etc...
[spoiler]The list goes on, but what I'm having a hard time understanding is how Bungie can call their recent actions a meaningful experience. In spite of what anyone thinks about me, this isn't about me, it's about the state of the game and where it seems to be heading that IMO is not a benefit to the player base and I'd like to see that changed for the better. Bungie? D1 is a prime example that kind of using focused play is not needed in this game to keep gamers around. When I look at things like this, it's not a good sign and I don't think you can say it is either.
https://warmind.io/activity[/spoiler]
Do you want to know what kept a lot of gamers playing D1? It was how the-game content was structured throughout the entire game and that is a fact. It was evened out between activities that gave that incentive to want to run certain activities because there was something for everyone in spite who thinks who is a "hardcore game or casual".
A suggestion could be...
[spoiler]Make the vendors useful like D1 and update them on regular basses as you did in D1
Bring back factions and leave them in the game
Exotics should drop in all activities and more often with the exception of a quest
Make the material more useful like D1 that not a lot stacking took place as much as D2 because we could trade, purchase items from Xur, etc...
Stop overpricing items to try to force gamers to spend their material because of stacking
Please stop with the overdone duplicates and create actual random rolls. It's the reason so many people ran activities like exploiting the chest in Menagerie because they were looking for that good roll.
When collecting the rewards from public events and only getting 3 of whatever material and glimmer is not rewarding. Increase the amount of material, legendary engrams and add other rewards.
The Gunsmith inventory can be increased by allowing us to be able to purchase all the mods in this game[/spoiler]
There are a lot of things you have done with D1 Bungie that is not applied to D2 and if it was, I'm sure things like only 3% of people running raids would increase. Hell, the player base would increase if you started to actually look at what is a meaningful experience.
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2 通の返信SilverSolsにより編集済み: 7/17/2019 8:05:56 PMThank you Odin for putting this out. I've watched my fireteam die off one by one from the game. I'm the last one standing by this point my two closest friends have decided they're never returning. With so far nothing in Shadowkeep showing a reason for myself to continue and things having a huge possibility of getting worse well I think the times coming for me to hang up my own helmet and walk away. I'm glad you could put this out there in a more sensible manner that shows this game isn't in the greatest state ever like people want to believe. If I am to never return soon than I'm glad someone out there will be at least talking about the things wrong still. Edit: it's honestly surprising the amounts of likes this got at all.
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5 通の返信TheLunaJoker07により編集済み: 7/17/2019 4:54:15 PMYou know you and I don’t always see eye to eye in fact we have had our arguments. As I have grown as a player I’ve learned what I thought was you being an ass was you giving me advice on how to get better. That being said I fully agree with you but I do want to see how things play out I feel the game is in a bad state for a couple of reasons however. 1. Bungie has been so reliant on Activision for so long that they are in a rush to prove they can do this on their own. ( they can but they need to take their time ) 2. We have a player base that is so torn right now that bungie is just doing what they believe is right and won’t upset one side or the other not realizing that in the process that is exactly what they are doing. 3. Materials from the planets are extremely rare and tedious to build up. ( they could bring back tokens or at the minimums Give more for completing tasks collecting chests etc) 4. I fully agree on the raid front no excuse to run a raid over and over to not get the one thing you are raiding for. 5. Lack of loot lack of updates and a lot of bugs and errors that need to be addressed on a constant basis not just a massive update once every three months but once a month with smaller weekly updates and patches to show they are fixing the issues the game faces. 6. Repair the crucible the maps are not designed for the current way crucible is set up. Every dlc should be introducing new crucible maps and gambit maps so they can remove an older map update it to the current status of crucible and bring it back better. 7. Give players more freedom to choose how they play they game make more quests with choices that have consequences like the drifter story line from last season ( best part of the season in my option) 8. Give us more dungeons like shattered throne whisper outbreak. These types of activities have proven just how exciting they can be. 9. Bungie needs to Be more open and willing to talk to the community on these forums and twitter not just the standard we will pass it to the devs. 10. when the players find a glitch that is helpful to the community as a whole that is beneficial to the player base as a whole stop taking the dam things out or patching them. ( not just menagerie there have been others that for the life of me I can’t remember right now) 11. make playing older content worth while ie the forges, strikes, heroic story missions etc etc ( I have been grinding gofannon to get the ship for a week now and nothing) 12. Give ikora something to do other than what she is doing now. Bring back the faction rallies allow us to have more interaction with the people of the tower. 13. Lastly update the vendors constantly and for the love of all things holy shut Tess up
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10 通の返信I love Destiny 2 in its current state and looking forward to more. Thank you Bungie for ignoring the trolls and listening to the right people. Keep up the good work.
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I can't comment on the D1 vs D2 thing because I played very little PvE in D1. But your suggestions all seem reasonable. I mean factions? When they return they better be 10 times better for the amount of time they were missing when they could have just been left as is while they were also being fixed so we would have something else to do. Maybe they just wanted us to focus on the annual pass but I don't see why they had to turn them all the way off. I also don't necessarily like the feeling I sometimes get like they are trying to stick a vacuum cleaner into my Scrooge McDuck vault. Its nice to be able to spend on things instead of grinding but like you said the prices are just too high most of the time. Especially for how much you have to grind to get a lot of the materials. You're also right about the public events. It makes no sense that doing them gives you less than picking them up off the ground and it would be nice if more stuff would drop from doing them.
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2 通の返信BloodS1ay3rにより編集済み: 7/17/2019 5:51:48 AM
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4 通の返信Wheelaa1により編集済み: 7/17/2019 1:01:34 PMIt's so obvious that the brains behind the vision for Destiny are different for D1 and D2. Sure, D2 has a lot more content...but none of it, absolutely none of it, is as much fun to play as D1 content. From the garbage weapon system, to the lacklustre raids, D2, after nearly 2 years, is still nowhere near as fun and engaging as D1.
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1 返信I have to agree with op i`m all but done at this point. My main gripe is seals, triumphs and the awful decision to implement RNG into them. I don't mind knowing that I have to kill 5000 hive while having solar grenades equipped as long as by the end of it ill get my reward, RNG needs to be removed from these kinds of activities These should also be achievable as either a pvp or pve player, I hate pvp and rarely touch it unless I really have to, so make it so that players in the same boat as me can achieve seals and triumphs without having to do activities we don't like What bright spark came up with the idea of the braytech weapons, grind yes, grind with bs RNG no,no,no And for the love of all that's holy enough of the jumping puzzles and hand cannons Raids that consist of jump on this to activate this to be able to shoot that which drops this to use over there, just let me shoot stuff, its just got all to complicated for my old tired brain This was my go to game since D1 and it`s sad that my time in the Destiny universe may be over, the game has changed and will continue to do so, maybe for the good maybe for the bad, but I just get the feeling it wont satisfy me like D1 did I truly hope this game franchise continues and gives players an experience they deserve and if it does I will continue and if not I wish all of you the best
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8 通の返信Bungie sat down, looked at where they wanted to go and decided they needed to figure out who their target audience was. It's hardcore grinders. They can't spit out content fast enough to keep more casual players happy so they are focusing on people who will grind out grenade kills and tribute materials. I realized I'm not their target audience anymore and quit playing. It doesn't make me bad, it doesn't make the people who like this level of grind bad, it just is. Find your fun and don't yuck someone else's yum. The gameplay is really fun, but the structure is just too much for me now. The only reason I bothered chiming in is that I think there's still a fair number of people who don't want to admit this isn't for them anymore. It's fun! But it can also feel all consuming of your time if your idea of fun is getting everything.
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“Make the vendors useful like D1 and update them on regular basses as you did in D1 Bring back factions and leave them in the game Exotics should drop in all activities and more often with the exception of a quest Make the material more useful like D1 that not a lot stacking took place as much as D2 because we could trade, purchase items from Xur, etc... Stop overpricing items to try to force gamers to spend their material because of stacking Please stop with the overdone duplicates and create actual random rolls. It's the reason so many people ran activities like exploiting the chest in Menagerie because they were looking for that good roll. The Gunsmith inventory can be increased by allowing us to be able to purchase all the mods in this game” * * * 👍👍. Well said. Lack of new loot in regular play and from vendors has been the number one reason why I have played this game a lot less in the last 6 months.
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3 通の返信Agree with most of your comments. I don't have tons of play time nowadays but have always enjoyed Bungie games for the FPS side which is awesome and the amazing worlds. Not enjoying the 180 on the grind. D2 vanilla did feel like candy being thrown at us from floats at a parade but now I feel I'm in a store where the candy is so expensive I can only afford a half piece of gum. Happy medium maybe? [spoiler]Is this the only way to preserve the game's longevity? Finding I play less and less as time goes on as I do it for the enjoyment and not so much for the achievement. Also having to constantly google things online, including quest steps, is not why I got on my Xbox in the first place, so much content/quest progression is cryptic or comes with no explanation. [/spoiler]
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1 返信They are either 0 or 100%. Same with nerfs and balancing. No middle ground. Went to making the game for 3 year old to building it for sweatcicle. Bungie, at some point in the games life, try a number like 75% or 80%.
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4 通の返信I just want a good story that isn’t locked behind lore with cut scenes and dialogue I still don’t know why people miss cayde he didn’t do anything??? Idk
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Someone commented here that Bungie’s decided their target audience is hardcore gamers, and that Bungie can’t generate content fast enough for casuals. That’s backwards. It’s not the casual players demanding new content at a faster pace. It’s the hardcore gamers. Casual gamers care about access and rewards per time ratio. They want to get on the game and feel like they can accomplish something in the time they have. That speaks to progression and balance. D2 has more stuff to “do” than D1 did. Amount of content is [b]not[/b] the problem for casuals. [spoiler]Most casuals don’t like inaccessibility. This means things like the game not explaining itself at key points. D2 is designed to be watched on YouTube from very basic to very complex aspects. I’m not saying complexity is bad. I’m just saying not everyone likes watching videos for everything. Especially for simple things like leveling gear. Most casuals are going to find themselves running out of some resource. Hardcore gamers take their knowledge for granted (those that don’t lord it over others), as such they tend to feel unchallenged in this area. However, IMO, it’s for lack of immersion. This is an unavoidable challenge for Bungie and has been since CoO.[/spoiler] [spoiler]One could make the same argument for progression itself. That some activities are +1 vs +5 is kind of ridiculous on paper when compared to D1. Obviously, no casual [b]wants[/b] to project manage their activities, but there is some precedent for doing so, since D1 bounties vs activities also had what I call “smart paths”. The last is something I actually like in this Season - Figuring out how to get the most out of my time. It can get frustrating, but there are so many bounties now that you have to do it. Still, many casuals won’t, and eventually will grow exasperated watching others pull ahead quickly.[/spoiler] [spoiler]Which brings me to what ultimately sums up the problem with engagement - there’s almost no game/life balance in D2. Bungie seems good at work/life balance for its employees, but it doesn’t exist for the users. I’m not talking about making the game easy. People with very difficult jobs can still have that balance. In fact, in D1 that balance wasn’t struck by Bungie at all. In D1, it was the community that created it. People with knowledge shared it, and they did it with patience. Why? Because they were also rewarded almost every time! That has nothing to do with having more or less things to do. More is great! Don’t get me wrong. It just doesn’t fill the gap completely.[/spoiler] [spoiler]All of these things are tied together. The move to push people toward videos, supported by obscure directions, heightened complexity, disparate silos of activities, extreme and widespread nerfing due to releasing extremely OP gear, white-washed weekly comms and lack of a sustained rewards system puts all the pressure of striking the game/life balance on marketing. Marketing is incapable of accomplishing this. In fact, the only thing it accomplishes is to make marketing efforts sound empty, make Bungie communications sound disingenuous and create a very strong, counter-culture among disenfranchised users. Even when Bungie [b]doesn’t[/b] deserve it![/spoiler]
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Y1 D2 = arcade game with a semi fun PvP to occupy time since the endgame is lame. Y2 D2 = chore with a broken PvP to occupy time since the endgame is either grinding or having already completed it a hundred times in order to get a fireteam together because it is way too technical and unforgiving.
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7 通の返信Great post, couldn't agree more. While vanilla Destiny 2 was way too lax with gear, we went too far down the opposite direction. At this point if you aren't willing to donate 10-20 hours a week you really won't get anywhere as a player. The hardcore audience instantly snaps at people asking why things have gone this far, "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU SHOULD LEAVE!" Well, if you keep that kind of attitude you'll end up with a dead franchise, because just the hardcore isn't enough to float the cost of development. Bungie needs to find a way to grab each group and make it work for them, it's tough and I understand that; however, I'd say at many points in D1 we were really close. The rolls were the real chase in D1, gear was handed out in numerous ways, so you always felt the chase and enjoyed doing it. Now the rolls are tough to get, gear is even tougher to get, so it's a really punishing experience.
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1 返信Bump... because I want to know these answers too. Apparently, Bungie w/o Activision is about as informative and talkative as Bungie w/ Activision. Surprise. Surprise. Surprise.
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1 返信
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What I feel the problem is that Bungie won’t listen to their community. As someone who’s been playing this game since D1 Alpha and quit back in December of 2018 all I can say is that even after Bungie left activision they still continue to not communicate with their community as much as they should and believe that their changes are correct even when the vast majority of the community will tell them no it’s not. Look no further then the cores situation. While yes we used motes in D1, we got motes from XP leveling after reaching max and we got motes from basically doing anything in the game, as compared to Cores which were 1. Not made for infusion but masterworking( BUNGIE THEY ARE MASTWORK CORES STILL JIST CHANGING THE NAME MEANS NOTHING) and 2. Were not earned from everywhere but only from doing certain activities and even then you didn’t get a lot during each time you earned some. All I’m saying is that this is one situation of many I’m only mentioning it since it’s the most recent. I think Bungie problem is that they don’t plan for the future and when something blows up in their place they are to stubborn to admit that they are wrong. If they just did that I’m siting that the amount of people bashing them on the forums would decrease as then they would have nothing to rave on Bungie about. But hey that’s my opinion in all Odin I agree with what you said I’ve been seeing you around a lot and it’s ice to have someone who share a lot of my opinions and greivances with, cheers buddy.
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Player base would increase by simply balancing dps and ttk rates across all weapon types. Making more than a few twenty Out of a thousand actually viable for use. When's the last time anyone actually changed their load out seriously. Blast furnace, jotunn, hammerhead of edge transit. Works in all situations wether burn matches or not.
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Agree 100% with all this. ^ It’s crazy to think D1 still has more to look forward to each reset than D2. Each vendor has fresh rolls on so many weapons and checking the gunsmith packages is more exciting than the bore fest D2 is becoming.
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3 通の返信I stopped playing due to cores. Well, cores in infusion was sort of the last straw. Honestly, I didn’t think I’d play again. KG2 said it had gotten better, so I tried. It’s better in a lopsided kind of way, and that’s how I feel about D2. It’s better than CoO, but still kind of lopsided. Clearly, whoever envisioned D2 was not the same person as D1. IDK, maybe it was, but this game doesn’t support players the way D1 did. Yeah, there were nerfs, but they weren’t as extreme. Resources, factions, venders, story, rewards, endgame, everything fit together so much better. In fact, D1 played like it fit together and was purposefully broken apart, so the seams were torn or frayed but still there. D2 plays like a bunch of mini games tied together.
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2 通の返信Shadowkeep's game loop: Load into the Moon. Talk to Eris. Take bounty Complete bounty. Load into the Moon. Talk to Eris. Take bounty ....
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1 返信I agree, i feel lots of it has to do with communication too. Its not really a conversation, it’s more us (the community) speaking to someone who just smiles at us. Theres no appreciation of feedback and especially no dev feedback on much larger, conflicting posts. Which is why your post probably will be forgotten sadly. Additionally i think theres something to be said about the loud minority of elitists in your post and in the community overall who don’t seem to grasp what destiny is and isn’t and what an RPG and MMO is and the difference between a Enjoyable grind, a Grind and a Chore that destiny is for the most part. Its sad cause they’re the people who will see a terrible system like cores, like infusion, like 2 blues from a strike, from a public event and see the lack of vendor diversity, purpose and overall enjoyment and just say ‘dont like the grind leave’, or ‘thats what an MMORPG is... No, thats not what it is, at all, as you said, 1500 GL kills is not a fun grind, its a chore. And admittedly yes there will be an inevitability of kill collect quests, but that doesn’t mean that every, single pve quest needs to be. HOWEVER, that brings out the crux of destinys issues, is a looter shooter, an fps mmo lite. The mechanics and things you can do are limited by the very nature of the game. Theres no evolving classes, heavy build depth like WoW, theres no crazy cool weapons like Dark Souls, there is NO diversity in destiny equipment and id wager its cause of the ever loveable PvP crowd. So until PvP becomes a second thought and bungie just lets go of all creative restrictions destiny 2 and 3 will stay the same boring game with the same stale weapons.
