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RiViSにより編集済み:
5/27/2019 6:13:42 AM
76
My dissapointment with the destiny community
Hey there guys, first of all, I hope you have a wonderful week. I am looking forward to hearing your honest opinion regarding this subject. To begin, allow me to introduce my self. I have been a unity game developer for the past 4 years and an avid destiny 1&2 player since their respective releases. I'm writing this post today since I wanted to share my (probably unpopular) opinion, and to hear from the rest of the voices in the community.
I'll say it bluntly......I'm disappointed with the community, the same community that's been one of the most amazing things in my life since d1 came out. The fact that people will vilify Destiny devs weeks before penumbra drops is honestly so disheartening and that's due to several reasons. I'm a dev, and personally know the pain and pressure in creating content, and I know the true disappointment when your community hates your newly released and fresh content. I have worked in the past in the companies that released content that was received.. ..it was not a pleasant experience, to say the least.
Our community is amazing, I love it and its ability to collectively solve puzzles, riddles, mechanics, and raids makes it one of the best out there in my opinion. The irony is that the community is so good at communicating effective techniques, tactics, and working together to solve complex problems, that after we achieve results of a successful raid, encounter or puzzle that we suddenly complain about the lack of content. Just for context, (forgive me for not recalling where the source is) the newly found and very loved Zero Hour mission took a 45 man team 7 months to finish. the same mission that our community figured out in less than 2 days (I'm excluding the configurations which were implemented).
I'm sure most of you know this but just in case, Bungie has no motive nor profit in making bad expansions, every single worker (and I can confirm personally since 2 friends of mine work there) there is an avid destiny lover which honestly wants to make good and fun content for us to grind and enjoy doing.
let's walk on the trail of expansions since forsaken(including).
- Forsaken was amazing, honestly, imo it is probably the best thing that happened to d2 ever since its release. It fixed [i]wayyy[/i] too many bugs and annoyances that were present and cleaned the road to a new year of content.
- Black armory was a double-edged blade for me, I really enjoyed the actual forge activity and farming the frames but the tiresome grind to unlock the forges (I swear if I find the one who said they need to amp up the grind for Izanami..) was really a big downer. Izanagi's Burden is a more solid exotic then I expected especially now since whisper is getting clapped back to the vault I want to believe it will shine slightly more in the pve meta. The quest felt fulfilling enough to grind it all and I enjoyed its length that really contributed to that feeling of "hell yeah that's an honest exotic mythic weapon I'm seeking" and not just a random drop out of nowhere.
- Jokers Wild, probably my current favorite out of the 2 releases. I'll summarise it in one sentence
"Oh god thorn, no wait ahhh im dead by last hand SOMEONE NERF SOUL DEVOURER". "Chasm of screams" was by far the finest strike I've done in d2, and was the first time I actually had to clench my butt in a strike due to the constant fear of those [i]lovely[/i] thralls. Gambit prime is by far a better, faster, more fun version of gambit and does bring out the rush in the hunt and the true fear from someone with god roll hammerhead invading you. Reconning has also been really fun even though I wonder now how in gods name are we gonna finish tier III without tether but we will have to see how substantial the nerfs are when opulence drops.
- Penumbra, probably the thing that caused me to write this post, is by far the most [b]hated [i]non released[/i][/b] expansion I have ever seen. the fact that people just automatically presuming this will be a bad expansion is one of the most disheartening things that a developer can see and it truly does "take out its winds from his sails". Bungu has been building the story up in such a fantastic manner with hints and teases that just makes you go insane (especially to lore nerds like myself) and I honestly have high hopes for penumbra, the raid, the new 6 man activity and the rising darkness (and plz plz plz bungu dark guardians).
I ask you guys as a fellow guardian and a fellow developer, have faith in Bungie, they are all amazing people creating stunning stories and a truly fun game and now that they are standing alone and strong I want to believe that the way forward for year 3 and d3 will be a GLORIUS one.
thanks a lot for reading and I am waiting to hear your opinions.
ps, do forgive me for probably bad grammar and writing since I am not an English native speaker
TL;DR: My own personal rant regarding the state of the community disbelieving in Bungie and my attempts to sway that
EDIT: this may have not been clear but I AM NOT a Bungie developer, I am a game developer non the less but I am not employed or contracted by Bungie in any way
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2 通の返信Farco69により編集済み: 5/27/2019 11:24:51 AMAny and all sympathy I may have had for the "plight of the Bungie dev" dried up very quickly. There are multiple cases of bugs/glitches which are of detriment to the [b]player[/b] which took weeks if not months to fix , no matter how often they were bought up to the dev team. But on the other side of the coin, bugs/glitches which are a detriment to the [b]Developers[/b] are realised, located and fixed in amazing time. Case in point: core exploit glitch. Which shows quite clearly how Bungie will drag their feet on any issue which lengthens the in-game time a player must spend to get to a certain point of progression. Case in point: +1 light lvl "powerful" rewards. This is all on top of the fact that the main tactic Bungie employs when "dealing with" feedback is to ignore it until it dies down, allowing them to deliver the next crappy decision to the playerbase..and ignore them again. It feels like our money went to buying the worlds biggest ball-pit so the children at Bungie can have a tantrum and bury their heads in it when the customers/players of their game almost [i]unanimously[/i] hate the directions they take. This leads on to the point that a lot of brown nosed individuals tend to make... "It's Bungies game, they design it how [u]they[/u] want it, who are you to demand otherwise?" To which the (as should be obvious) answer is: We are the customers, the ones whose money has been spent and is now paying for this game and it's future..and also the salaries of the ones who made it. We are the main reason for the games existence. Would you have me believe that Bungie would have made this game if they believed that the only people playing it would be Bungie employees? No,of course not. Therefore should the opinions of the paying customer not outweigh the pettiness that these Devs display time and time again when they ignore the feedback of thousands of players and simply reply with a generic copy paste variant of "we hear you"? TL;DR. Bungie act unprofessionally so often that it should come as no surprise that the community treats them as such. The community will respect game Devs that act like game Devs, and who keep their childish tendencies [i][b]away[/b][/i] from the business. EDIT:please note I use "dev" here as a general term for Bungie employees pertaining to the specific situations..cbf differentiating "dev,manager,pr" and so on.
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Ogma: Destroyer of Worldsにより編集済み: 5/29/2019 2:21:47 PMIt’s not a matter of faith. It’s a matter of trust. Which is earned. They have not done so. It’s clear that they will continue to HEAVILY dictate player’s experience of the game when it comes to how people acquire everything. In a way that is detrimentally rigid in my opinion.
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Bugs/glitches aren't what most people are upset with. Those are mistakes, and that's human nature. They're upset because we were sold a AAA game with amazing art/design/gameplay, with a heavy emphasis on mmorpg from the developer of the most popular alien shooter ever, but then had wonky peer-to-peer pvp thrown in and shoved in our faces with quests to force people into pvp. RNG drop rates made it more upsetting for not getting rewarded for time invested. They make some things harder than they should be. Then they added a microtransaction store that gets updated regularly instead of focusing on playable material/content. We invest our time in activities and get almost nothing while they ask us to invest more money. We bought the game in support of the developers/studio, that was our investment, and some feel that it was not worth it.
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[ＳiＮ]大き氷により編集済み: 5/26/2019 10:14:07 PM[quote]have faith in Bungie[/quote] No. I had that for 4 years. I had it in the face of the greatest creative forces leaving the company far before release, and the sense of wonder Destiny had leaving with them. I had it in the face of delays. I had it in the face of clearly not up to par game design with a community writing atrociously bad feedback and them listening to it rather than fixing things. So again no. I'm gonna sit here while calling a spade a spade, and watch the ship sink. In the off chance that I'm wrong and bungie completely turns it around then good on them. However I have high doubts of that given their track record up to now. Forsaken predictably didn't change a thing.
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I loved D1, one of the best games I’ve played, Destiny 2 was disappointing, the devs tried to change WAY too many things and it flopped. I know it’s a monumental undertaking too put out a game like Destiny, that’s not the problem, the problem is Bungie claims to LISTEN to the community, but they ignore what they don’t agree with!! I have played Destiny since the D1 beta, and have watched Bungie LIE, IGNORE and FEED LIP SERVICE the community, and for that I have NO PATIENCE. This is a community, but we are also CUSTOMERS and never has a company made me feel so DISRESPECTED.
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8 通の返信Look buddy I hate you and I hate bungie and I hate destiny. It's one of the worst games ever made, and it'll never be as good as its predecessor. Bungir is scum and only exists to extort us for money. Now excuse me while I log in another 400 hours playing everyday and continue to post how terrible everything is on this forum
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2 通の返信
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3 通の返信Really oh you poor flower Let’s see here how you guys aka bungie acted when you had activision money and how you act now is vastly different. You didn’t care back then and then all of a sudden your all We will communicate with our forums We are community focused blah blah We remember You treat us like idiots but we remember It’s been mentioned by others but you listen to streamers and ignore the normal players You cast casual players aside hell even Forbes wrote a piece saying you should embrace them. You reskin weapons and call it job well done instead of creating new content like we paid for . Not to mention the current d1 rehashing of just about every gun it had. And the nerfs my god the nerfs , literally hundreds of different boss mechanics out there to use and you choose the one that requires the least work....hey see a pattern here? The community is angry because you as a “dev” and the rest are lazy and cheap. You don’t want to create you just want to rehash and bring back old content. You have no interest in the normal gamer aka 90% of your audience and their wishes aka NO MORE NERFS I don’t know if you seriously are a dev I’m very sceptical but if you can’t get out of your bubble and actually relate to your audience get ready for more tears snowflake cause your content is phoned in at best I could literally write pages of your sins, honestly the stuff you did right is barely keeping me coming back
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11 通の返信
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Sorry, but Bungie is doing this shit sonce 2014. Shit short story (no time to explain; Ghaul the joke; Saladbar forgets we are Irln Lords now; etc.). Puzzles that can't be solved by a three or six people fireteam and NEEDS the internet to solve. Also a shit UI system since day one of D1! Even low effort systems like The Division has better interface for weapons and armor. It's all such a bloody mess and still no dedicated server for PvP. PvP worked much better in 2004 with Quake and Unreal Tournament! etc. Seems like todays developers are either incompetent or the rich investors want the games to be awfully inept. Only gfx and sound design are really good today.
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9 通の返信Didn’t read. Got to the bottom to post, saw a sentence saying ‘Faith in Bungie’. Confirmed, stupid post is stupid.
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Krantzstoneにより編集済み: 5/26/2019 10:23:25 PM[b]"Destiny 2 misrepresented XP gains to its players until the devs got caught After confirming a hidden "XP scaling" system, Bungie made XP grinds even slower. Sam Machkovech - 11/27/2017, 1:34 PM"[/b] [quote][i][b]"Fan outcry to this system has mostly hinged on the lack of transparency from the developer, with the game neither displaying correct XP amounts while scaling was active nor officially guiding players to play better-gaining modes. Other players have pointed to official, paid promotions, like Bungie and Activision's promotional deal with the snack food Pop-Tarts, which offered doubled XP gains in exchange for buying their food. "Did I technically get the 25-percent [XP] boost?" Reddit user Armlock311 wrote on Saturday. "Technically yes, but if [the] scaling mechanic was public knowledge before the Pop-Tarts event began, would you have spent your money on Pop-Tarts for the XP gain? I wouldn't have." Other players have openly questioned how much this scaling system was driven by the game's real-money economy. Destiny 2 players can spend real money on bright engrams, which can more quickly unlock the game's loot box contents than can be earned via XP grinding. Bungie's Saturday statement about the XP scaling system did not address this question from fans."[/b][/i] [/quote] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/fan-analysis-forces-bungie-to-confirm-screwy-xp-math-in-destiny-2/
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Krantzstoneにより編集済み: 5/26/2019 10:24:14 PM[b]"This Is Every Bungie Apology for Destiny 2 Problems, Is Apologizing Enough Though? By Katerina Tzika January 22, 2018"[/b] [quote] [i][b] "Bungie has to understand that apologizing and admitting they are wrong is not working anymore. Destiny 2 is at its breaking point and the dev team has to understand this and do something about it in the near future. As we see it, there are only two options here: either Bungie will start truly listening to player feedback and take immediate action or see Destiny 2 fall and players move to some other game. Seeing a $60 title like Bungie’s flagship crumbling down due to miscommunication of the team and constant bad decisions is such a shame. We hope that Bungie has taken the message and will start taking some serious action to make Destiny 2 a great sequel to their original, now classic, title."[/b][/i][/quote] https://segmentnext.com/2018/01/22/every-time-bungie-apologized-screwing-destiny-2-enough-though/
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4 通の返信No, just no. If this was back in D1 when Bungie was still learning how to run a game like this, then I'd be 100% with you. However this is the second game, almost 5 years into the franchise. Bungie consistently ignores their player base, and keeps doing things they want, rather than what the players want. They consistently push more and more microtransactions down our throats for content that used to be included in the game. They consistently lie to us saying they are listening, then ignore what we say. They consistently focus too much on the streamers/influencers and ignore the majority. I defended bungie's mistakes for 3 years of Destiny 1, now there's no excuse for these decisions they make. Sure the programmers might be trying their best, but their dev team has failed us over and over again.
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Sorry but what's "fresh" about most of the content they've been releasing? They've been reusing assets from D1 for the entire lifespan of D2. Guns, locations, for FÚCK'S SAKE can we get new enemies after ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL these years? New strikes? New patrol planet? The hell reality do you live in when you say they're releasing "new and fresh" content?
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2 通の返信
AngeloNo more Nerfs...Let Chaos Reign Supreme. - 古い投稿
No, I will not respect or care for developers who don’t respect my time/investment in their game. They can work as hard as they want in the game, but if all my “Rewards” are going to be inevitably nerfed in the future, what’s the point of chasing said “Reward”? I’ll have faith in them when they stop weakening things I enjoy using and start actually caring about the very people who put money in their pockets. I don’t mind paying a subscription fee if that’s what it takes for no more nerfs and dedicated servers (mainly for the PvPers, but I wouldn’t selfishly exclude them from benefits I’m willing to pay for since they also paid for this game). I can understand your sympathy with the devs since you’re a dev yourself, but when the devs have arrogant snarky people like Luke Smith and/or Deej making sly comments/remarks while also nerfing things, then they don’t deserve the money nor respect from us. Hard work or not, you give respect to earn respect. -
3 通の返信Your disappointment with the comunity reaction to content can only be, due to the community being constantly disappointed with bungo and their actions. After reading your post I am even more concerned with the state this game is going to be in, in the future. If it has a future. Let me use your example as to why I'm worried, Zero Hour Bungo we have been told has around 800 employees. Included in this number are management, community, writers, artists, game leads etc., so many different ppl. How many then in total are devs/programmers? Around 500? That again is split into sandbox, scenery, weapons, armour etc. You say it took 45 ppl 7 months to put out Zero Hour. Damn that's bad. A big majority of the area was old content run backwards, the first D2 main mission, old broken tower. New areas would have to be designed and developed so agreed that would take time. However the enemies are just code right, already written, dregs, vandals, shanks, servitors and tanks are pre written code waiting to be slotted into its correct place in the whole program. Cut and paste so to speak, if they are not using this method then that is also bad. So we now have a 20 minute mission, with a lot of old content, with old enemies and a rewarded D1 reskin weapon. 7 months and almost 10% of the working developers. O'Oh. If I'm wrong then I apologise to all involved and it was an ok mission the first couple of times. Being bugged and not able to earn the weapon on alternative characters was a bit sh1t and testing should have been better. I've not run it again since the first couple days. No interest in getting a catalyst that so overpowers the gun a guaranteed nerf is coming, the ship, no thanks that's an ugly thing.
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2 通の返信This isn’t a community anymore. It’s a cesspool. I’ve seen it degrade too much. I remember when people used to actually be positive here, kinda like Offtopic. Then it just went downhill
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To put it as simply as I can, It’s the casual players complaining about this and that, and then the hardcore players complaining that the casuals complaining is ruining the game, which then in turn causes the casuals to complain how the hardcores’ complaining is ruining the game, and it goes in a loop of complaining about each other and how Bungie is listening to the other side or not listening at all. It’s like the Spiderman meme where the two Spidermen are pointing at each other, but in this case there’s also a third who’s standing on the side idly also getting pointed at and blamed.
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1 返信As someone else said earlier, just because a lot of effort was put into something it doesn’t automatically make it great, or even good (for another good example google ‘monkey jesus’ to see good intentions and a lot of effort gone horribly wrong). Bungie’s biggest problem is that, for the most part, they don’t listen to their players. Issues like enhancement cores, crucible spawns and poor matchmaking for crucible, gambit, reckoning and forges, bad rng (you’re last five powerful drops were boots so clearly you need another set of boots!), issues players having been bringing up over and over again just get ignored. Instead they go and nerf a bunch of things players weren’t even talking about. The cores situation, poor forge matchmaking and the weapons I like getting nerfed are the main reasons I’ve currently stopped playing this game. There’s been a lot of flak, and some peoples behaviour has been unacceptable, but ultimately Bungie have brought it all down on themselves.
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god2killにより編集済み: 5/27/2019 3:38:04 AMBungie given chance with D1... shits bed. Crota... shits bed. HoW... shits bed. TTK... washes bed sheets. April Update... remakes bed. RoI... takes a long nap. AoT... rolls over, gets up to piss, goes back to bed. D2... proceeds to once again shit bed. Osiris... shits bed. Warmind... shits bed, but saved slightly by EP. Forsaken... washes sheets again. Forges... shits bed. Jokers wild... shits bed. Opulence... trend says... gonna shit the bed. There’s 2 points here. First of all, your experiences are different than mine. Which makes both your experience and mine anecdotal at best. Neither is wrong or right. They’re just differing opinions. But here’s point number 2, and the more important one. If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. They’ve shit the bed more times than not. Statistically... the probability of Opulence being trash is too high for anyone to really expect much from it. It’s just as ignorant to praise them for non released content, as it is to condemn them for it. At least 1 of those stances has some footing in actual reality. Also... I don’t think anyone ever accused them of intentionally putting out bad content. But just because they didn’t mean for it to be bad... doesn’t make it not bad...
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3 通の返信
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2 通の返信I can’t deal with the game anymore. There’s a small part of me that hopes they can turn this around, but it’s doubtful. I’m tired of all the lying in this company: You can go there, we’re no longer nerfing anything, etc. I’m tired of Eververse being in a full priced game that I bought 2 season passes for. I’m tired of key features being taken away (rallies, trials, etc) only to be brought back as a selling point later. 100% promise you, after Opulence launches, the next dlc will be announced and one of the key highlight will be Trials returning as “a free update because we love you guys, even though this was already in the game”. Just tired of shady business tactics and predatory practices. I know I’m just one voice, but less than 4% of the total D2 population still plays, and that number will get smaller when it’s just the hardcore audience left. Then some hardcore players will leave when there are no casual players to pubstomp and the cycle will continue. Even Youtubers are running out of shit to say. Again, I know. Another “just leave then” response, and I am. Bungie won’t get another dollar from me.
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