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10/13/2017 12:51:22 AM
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TW@B reply to the Devs: 20 ideas for improved endgame

[quote]One thing we have noticed is a lot of discussions about the Endgame and how it can be improved. Right now, these discussions are also happening in our studio. We are listening, but need time to digest everything and draw up the best plans for the future. We will have more to say on this soon. Please stay tuned, and keep the conversation rolling. -Cozmo[/quote] Thank you for the update and it's good to hear it's being discussed internally. Like you said, there are millions of players and we all have differing and strong opinions on what Destiny is/should be and it's got to be hard to build a game that fits what everyone wants. That said, here are some things that I believe would improve the game and endgame grind (some more easily doable than others, but all I think worth considering) 1) A total rethink on team sizes. 3, 4, 6 doesn't work. Ostensibly the reasoning for 4v4 PvP was creating the best crucible experience possible. It doesn't take much searching to see that isn't panning out. Yes, good connections and crisp play are fun but what's more fun is playing with friends and not telling 2 they have to go after a raid. DeeJ was correct about Destiny and friendship but the current game philosophies don't support that. There are no easy transitions from patrol to PvP to raiding. It's disjointed and leads to someone always left out or already playing with others because there wasn't room. Clans in-game are great, but raids as the only 6 player social activity isn't sustainable. Besides Crucible, patrols should 100 % be accessible by 6 members of a fireteam. We cheese it sometimes and it's FUN all running around planets and doing public events together just like it was a blast to cheese 6 into CoE and Archons Forge in D1. I also think despite the idea of Hunter, Titan, Warlock symmetry of 3 person Fireteams, they should grow to 4 eventually. 2) Get rid of Xur. It's good 3oC are gone but exotics still don't feel like special drops anymore. I remember the feeling of having my first exotic drop in D1 and how exciting it was. They're basically handed to us in D2. I think having chance drops from strikes, the NF and raid underbelly chests is fine; as well as the weapon specific quests like MIDA, but I think Exotic Bounties should return. I think the Vanilla Exotic Bounties were probably the best bounties in D1 and truly felt rewarding. When someone had Thorn, you may not have liked the gun but you knew they earned it. I would remove Exotic engrams from heroic public events and instead put bounty drops in the loot pool for a set of exotics obtained through them. 3) make exotics feel exciting and special. They don't need to all be more powerful, but every Exotic should have one perk that makes it fun. 4) Eververse is robbing the game of end game content. While I think it's somewhat better than D1 (though still hate that Eververse is RNG) in that items get sold for dust that we can attain just playing as well, I think too much was put into that loot pool. The exotic ships and sparrows should all be moved to random drop chances in Lost Sectors and Cayde's chests. I would put them at low to extremely low drop chances but they're content that players would enjoy playing and grinding to get instead of wasted as Eververse purchases. 5) The token system needs a lot of work. It's okay with the world vendors and wasn't too bad with the Faction Rally, but it's not popular in IB and how the same random gear drops we get in every other faction engram ended up as loot possibilities for ranking up in IB is really mystifying. 6) There's not enough unique loot. When it was announced all great would have static rolls, I assumed that would be made up for with just tons of variety. That's not really the case. While the unique sets from the various vendors are cool, there should be more starting with strike specific loot drops like we had in D1. Outside of Zavala's reward drops, there's pretty much no reason to run a non nf strike in D2. I know that for whatever reason you all hated us grinding for weapons like Grasp, but the fact that we did spend so much time farming Omnigul should tell you that we thought it was fun and rewarding. 7) mods aren't fun and there economy is still awful. It's kinda cool we can have 99,999 Glimmer now, but when we're constantly dropping 95% purchasing blue mods to hopefully convert to purple (and not having enough Glimmer to apply them if they do drop! it becomes less fun really fast. Blue mods just need to go completely. What's their function other than to stack to make legendaries? Drop the pointless step and just let us purchase purple mods. The mods themselves need work too. They're all pretty boring and outside of weapon stability mods, pretty useless. I've seen suggestions for things like 3rd eye on mods. Don't know that I'd do that on every weapon, but I think exotics all having a customizable special mod slot (with special mods like 3rd eye) would make mods and exotics more fun. 8) Let us replay the full campaign. The Ikora memories idea isn't bad but should not be the only way (besides starting over) to replay the full campaign. Ikora could still have her memories, but I think they should be special, more in-depth missions in the vein of Praedyth's Ghosts and really bring the lore to life. Wouldn't have to be all the missions either. 9) Give more (read: any kind of) endgame challenges for solo play. The craziest thing about D2's disjointed team endgame is that it's all so punishing for solo play. Crucible just isn't very fun solo. Nightfalls are no longer soloable Strikes don't drop anything worth playing with randos to get Most public events I attempt solo, there aren't any randoms helping either. There's no arena style endgame like PoE, CoE and AF Outside weekly milestones, there's nothing else really to do and no daily bounties to grind 10) Jay from Destiny tracker suggested bringing back record books. This again could really give more to achieve at endgame and could be an avenue for even more unique gear sets (the Eververse gear sets could have been in a record book instead and I know players would've loved grinding PvP and PvE for those set completions. 11) make power level matter. It's one thing to scale everyone on patrol, but it plays and feels exactly the same at level 7 and 90 Power as it does at level 20 at 305. Shouldn't we feel stronger? 12) make endgame more rewarding in general. Playing IB everyday for no gear drops. Running the raid for no drops and level nothing gear you already have at the vendor. Those aren't rewarding experiences. 13) gate content better. Other's disagree but I still feel the raid a week in was a mistake and took away from exploring and really getting into the depth of the worlds. Instead everyone was power leveling for the raid and it turned out level didn't really mean much. Trials did the same with PvP. Now this week you had intended to drop IB and the prestige raid together. That made no sense. Why would you, knowing a lot of people are going to be grinding the raid all week, put out ib at the same time and make people choose? 14) completely redo the crucible. Casual and competitive would maybe work in set game modes, but they are all RNG. In D1 I learned Destiny PvP playing Control. I was able to really learn the mode, the flow, the maps, etc in a game mode I felt good playing. D2 is a nightmare hodgepodge. There is no getting into a flow or rhythm when the game mode changes every match. 15) rethink timers. They're okay occasionally but they're mostly just artificial difficulty. 16) give us a Forge and Theater mode. 17) what's the point of the farm? Once we open the tower there's no real reason to ever go back and even if you prefer it, no vendors. Expand the farm. Give "remote" vendor access and please give us a shooting range. It would be so so so nice to be able to chill and test weapons while hanging out in the social space. Particularly if there were challenges and daily/weekly leaderboards. 18) let us grind and build gear sets how we want. There's nothing that really distinguishes any of the sets beyond skins. My choices as a Hunter are basically mobility and resilience. Sorry, no recovery for you today. Someone suggested let us use all our pointless Legendary shards to reroll the gear slots. 19) keep content flowing. So far we've had the faction rally added. It was fun enough, but let's be realistic. It was content that already existed turned into a limited time event. The world events were the highlights for me though as they really brought the planets to life that week. 20) Destiny is still fun AF. The weapons, classes and abilities are still fun. The raid is fun. PvP can be fun. The planets are beautifully crafted. Playing with our friends when the game allows us too is still fun. Just give us more to do. More to Chase and more to experience both with friends and SOLO. Thank you
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#destiny2 #DTC

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  • I had more fun, and hope, reading this post than I did TWAB. That’s friggin sad. Not that you’re not awesome sir, but that Bungie seems to kinda, well, suck at the moment.

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  • 50
    This is a good list. Thanks for posting it. There is a lot of great feedback being posted. Please keep it coming.

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    • 21) Buff all grenades in PVP except for pulse grenades. 22) Buff Shoulder Charge.

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      3 通の返信
      • Power level wouldn't matter as much if they didn't butcher the system from D1. Removal of perk choices, str/int/disc, armor perks that help lower cooldowns and good exotic perks (double nades, double melee, Bad Juju, etc) are what kill the feeling of strength in the end game PvE content. What made you feel stronger was building your armor set to give you max in 2 stats and then dump the rest into what was left over. It lowered cooldowns on your abilities dramatically and combined with the right perks and gear, you could be tossing grenades and punching things every 10 seconds, you could have your super up quickly to dispatch foes. Even with level scaling, the system allowed you to feel powerful by using the right build and gear. D2 removed all that. Cooldowns are stuck at 60-80 seconds. Supers take forever to build. You can't build specific gear sets with specific perks in mind to become a bad ass Darkness killing machine. You're stuck with your gun, which feels the same as every other gun you got while leveling, and weak abilities on long cooldowns to deal with scaling enemies, giving zero sense of your character actually getting stronger. Power level is just a content gate now and nothing more. Thank you, Bungie, for prioritizing PvP balance over PvE fun, all because you want to make a esport out of the game. The backlash of the community really shows a disconnect between what the players want and what Bungie thinks the game should be. Everything from the shader debacle to gameplay changes feels like Bungie's goal was the strip the fun out and turn it into a barebones shooter/microtransaction machine. And I enjoy the game. But it's a pale imitation of its predecessor and it boggles my mind that any developer looked at this and thought the players would be satisfied.

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      • [quote]Are you done grinding planetary tokens for that armor you wanted? Are you done grinding the gunsmith for that rare gun you want? Are you done grinding the easy new raid for that armor you want because the raid guns suck? Are you done grinding the crucible for your Better Devils? Are you done grinding Trials of the Nine tokens because you can't go flawless due to sweaties? [b]Well have I got the answer for you![/b] [b]Behold, IRON BANNER![/b] ([i]Now with 80% less iron[/i]) Grind endlessly for [u][b]new[/b] Samurai themed armor[/u] and guns with an [u]exclusive Iron Banner sticker[/u], but with the added urgency of a limited event making you grind harder than ever before! Enjoy the absolute worse this game has to offer, with unbalanced teams, bad spawns, and meta players using the most broken weapons. Fight an endless war of attrition against camping Warlocks with infinite health, or get killed in literally under a second by the Last Word 2.0. Enjoy the endless droning of sirens as the clan you solo-qued up against captures the entire map. Lose to teams with FIVE TIMES YOUR SCORE who have been spawn killing you for the past five minutes. Get killed by a rocket launcher before you're finished the spawn-in animation, or get cross-mapped by fusion rifles. Try to capture a zone while getting hit from 8 pulse grenades, which aren't at all over powered when compared to the other grenades. Discover how useless anything that isn't the meta really is, as you're killed by the Antiope, Uriel's Gift, MIDA, and Last Hope consistently. Learn how powerful Fist of Havok is as the only roaming panic-button super. Ask yourself why Bungie left the Hunter "Wombo-Combo" in the game, only to never use the wombo-combo again, as your super, Shadow Shot, is literally just Nova Bomb, but completely useless. Wonder what the point of player choice is, as you discover the "One Path to Victory" Shaxx is always talking about is simply playing the meta, with any semblance of skill optional. [b] But how is this better than the Iron Banners of old? [/b] The only difference between Iron Banner and regular Crucible? Gone. That pesky lore of the Iron Lords nobody cared about? Gone. The uniquely modeled weapons of previous Iron Banners? Gone. The ability to buy items as you progress? Gone. The chance to get Iron Banner items as an post-game reward? Gone. The ability to re-roll weapons? (bet some of you forgot about that) Gone. The rewarding experience of obtaining high level loot and powerful items? Gone. [b] All those toxic downsides of Iron Banner are now more dead than the Iron Lords. [/b] Instead, grind away for meaningless tokens for the RNG slot machine that gives no guarantee your time will be rewarded. Win low level gear and weapons with an [u]exclusive Iron Banner sticker[/u], with a Iron Lord's chance in a SIVA replication chamber of getting the [u]new Iron Banner exclusive [b]Samurai[/b] armor[/u], which doesn't match the theme of Iron Banner one bit. Listen to Overwatch easter eggs that remind you of better games you could be playing, and end your week feeling hollow for spending all your time grinding for the armor you wanted, only to get an endless supply of Iron Banner themed garbage sidearms. [b] Let us take a moment to thank Bungie for this event. [/b] This event that showcases every single flaw of Destiny 2. This event that showcases the faults of the Crucible. This event that showcases how unrewarding the game is. This event that has managed to royally piss me off. [b] Thank you Bungie. [/b] P.S. I'm never playing Iron Banner again...until some stupid new gear comes out and I force myself to endure more of this cancer and rip my hair out.[/quote]

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      • Watch sc slayerage vid on YouTube, he sums it up way better than op

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      • I'd just like Banshee to have a rotating stock of his guns for direct sale, dozens of packages later and I still can't get the few guns I really want to play with.

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      • Bump for later. [spoiler]A levelheaded intelligent post with good endgame criticisms, what is this sorcery?![/spoiler]

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      • Very well said. I agree with most of what you said and appreciate your attitude about it

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      • bring back other locations like the moon? I mean we are flying out to Saturn's moons why can I not stop by our moon? If the Cabal control it then why the heck are we able to leave earths orbit to begin with then? Let alone if there is a Cabal base so close to the Farm why do they not just stroll on over and burn it to the ground? Just really weird that you add 4 new locations to remove the other 4 locations. Make unique gear to lost sectors and make them have deeper depths with higher risks with better rewards. adding to the gear to say hey i dove down deep into this hidden hole on x planet and found this cool gear and gun. Also why not make a lost sector feel like a hidden place not something with plastered neon signs saying loot here. Like opening a vex door to enter and have to beat a boss to get loot and go deeper. Or open a long lost war mind vault to find some experimental weapon system. Or armor or what not. Can we please have the ability to make armor for our characters with a huge pool of options some of the stuff in the game is cool but as a titan I am really tired of looking like i am from the 80's with way to many shoulder pads. I know some will hate this but let us bring back old stuff from Destiny 1 like armor design and ships? You have quite the pool of stuff to help fill the lack of stuff that is in Destiny 2. I mean you have lore tabs hinting and nudging players at Red Death engrams in the Crucible. Personally my favorite Exotic and would love to have back as i loved its build and all of its ornaments. Plus you already have Destiny 1 exotics in Destiny 2 so why not trickle them back in while unloading many new exotics into the game. Finally can we get the writing department to focus on writing a story that actually well tells a coherent story to whats been established? I mean we have characters reference and call us Saladin's Young Wolf ... and the guy that gave us that title does not say anything to us or about us that have played Rise of Iron.

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      • I am dumb teamshotter with only 1 thumb. I would like PvP slowed down a bit more! Or do you -blam!-s want to discriminate against me?!?

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      • 'Exotics basically drop for us' Yet i only have 6 exotic weapons. None of which were actually obtained from engrams. Sunshot MIDA coldheart Riskrunner Fighting lion Rat king I preferred it when the exotic engrams were split up into armour and gear...

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      • if they bring back exotic bounties, I have a suggestion: Bring back all D1 exotics (YES ALL OF THEM) and have Banshee offer one Exotic Weapon and one Exotic Armor bounty. Make them fairly difficult. Make them unique. Like needing get a bunch of kills from the hip with Hand Cannons for TLW, and end with a small quest to kill a Fallen Captain with a hand cannon, or go and you have to use a SUROS weapon to recreate the data for SUROS Regime and go through a gathering quest to get the materials needed. There also needs to be more exotic quests. IB should have brought us a Gjallarhorn like quest for a new Iron Lord exotic. Io should have had the Sleeper SImulant as it's exotic, not Man O' War. Yes it's recycled content, but many of us were attached to TLW, Hawkmoon, SUROS. Bring back the Adepts from AoT - FATEBRINGER. People would kill for Fatebringer back. Easy way to get longevity, add more quests, and more content. Sure it's recycled. It's just one step. Just my few cents. Luckily I had time to explain. But not No Time to Explain. Bungie pls.

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      • You're taking away exotic engram drops from Public Events? [b]EAT MY FARTS! ! ![/b]

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      • That was an intelligent, mature, salt-free post. I agree with most of what you wrote except #2. Well done.

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      • -- GDPR: removed by user request --

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      • Darth Derrr (Defiled)により編集済み: 10/14/2017 4:33:35 PM
        Let's let wait for Xur to sell Skyburners Oath before calling on him to step down, eh?

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        3 通の返信
        • I agree with everything except #2

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          • P.S. Make Tess sell the Vex transmat sometime... I hate being disappointed each week

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          • TrulyDontCareにより編集済み: 10/15/2017 1:42:25 PM
            A thoughtful post that's not full of whining and name calling? What is this wizardry?

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          • Can't say I entirely agree with #2. Xur is not for everyone so there will be people who are going to hate him but there are people who may need him because they're to busy to fully commit to the game. I think at this point you can earn exotics from just about any activities and that is a varying line of likes and dislikes.

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            • Get rid of one use shaders, weekly update mentions deleting mass shaders but that doesn't address the actual problem. There are a lot of guardians who love to change shaders repeatedly. Not set an armour to one shader then use glimmer to change back repeatedly. I don't care about the argument that i will have plenty of extra ones. If i were to change shaders as often as i did in d1 then before doing any event i would have to first grind to get more of a previous shader that i used. Let us be ourselves.

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              2 通の返信
              • Set bonuses for armor would be excellent.

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              • Warlock TheGreyにより編集済み: 10/15/2017 10:36:23 AM
                I am hoping 1 perk RNG for guns. I am referring to the last perk on legendaries. Similar to kingsfall weapons but a little bigger pool. They can put a perk pool that won't break pvp (bungie's stress point) like luck in the champer etc.... that enables legendaries to drop with 1 RNG perk only like outlaw or firefly. That can be something to chase

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              • The problem with the NF (especially prestige) is the modifiers and the rewards. Likewise to every other activity save maybe public events, the rewards are not worth the paper their original idea was written on. So a halo is cool and shows you beat something..... it goes away after a week. There has to be a arroyo n a stick of some sort (maybe leaderboards) to warrant putting so much effort into a difficult activity like that. The timer.... where to start! Well it is artificial difficulty. I personally don't mind the timer however kick to orbit was way better in terms of sheer difficulty. No one liked it back in the day because it was new, hard, and no one knew alternates. Now that the game has been around, we had hard ass year 1 NFs, Gay ass year two-three NFs, and now a timer with gay ass modifiers. Bungie, add 2+3 and get 5 and take the best of all three and make a decent activity. Remember to un-blam!- the rewards as they have literally ALWAYS been trash polluted with additional trash thrown on top of s trash RNG system.

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              • Let's also be sure we fix Uriels. An auto rifle outshootin scouts at distance is a -blam!-ing joke. Seriously do devs even play their own games?

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