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9/22/2017 3:33:52 PM
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There is no such thing as progression in an FPS, which is what D2 clearly is now. It's an FPS with some additional PVE content that they hope to use to keep casuals who abhore PVP busy, while they hope to funnel everyone else into the crucible for replayability.
I've been saying this since the reveal. Bungie has failed to see that it is loot-based incentives that have kept us playing and replaying the game in PVE and they have ultimately destroyed all of our loot-based incentives for playing/replaying the game in D2, effectively rendering the game an FPS.
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Sorry, but wrong. Destiny 2 is simpler game than Destiny 1. But its a SIMPLER game, because its systems are better designed. There is plenty of progression in the game, all you're hearing is a lot of whining. 1. Whining because the game won't give people endless vertical progression. So people are mad. All loot based games cap this. 2. Whining because the game's economy is different than Destiny 1s. But instead of learning how this game works (like they had to do with Destiny 1). People just sit and whine that its different. 3. A lot the obnoxious elements of Destiny 1 have been removed. You dont' have to grind to level up gear and unlock perks. You dont' have to grind trying to get a particular random roll. Instead you can mod a weapon to perform in the way you want. Vendor stocks rotate and location specific. So if theres a particular item---if you're paying attention----you know exactly where to go to have the best chance of getting it. 4. If you want vertical progression, there are all kinds of weekly activities. Nightfall. Raid. Trials. Flashpoints. Crucible (Call to Arms). Then there are Clan rewards for Crucible and Raid completions. Also the reward for maxing out your weekly exp contribution to Clan rep. ALL of these things are GAUREENTEED drops at power levels higher than your current one. 5. If you want horizontal progression, every play location has an NPC vendor: Devrim Kaye on Earth. Asher Mir on Io, Zavala's second -in-command among the Titans (I forget her name) on Titan. Failsafe on Nessus. Every activity you do in these locations increase your rep and give rewards that drop at 1 or 2 power levels above the AVERAGE power level of stuff in your inventory. Then there are the tower vendors who do the stame thing: Gunsmith for planterary materials. Eververse for customization items. Zavala for the strike playlist, Ikora for story missions and daily challenges ...and next week the Destiny 1 factions will return. Ushering in what will probably be the game's first recurring Iron Banner style PVE event. The "Faction Wars" people spent so much time pleading for Bungie to give us. TLDR: This game is a BETTER designed...more THOUGHTFULLY designed...game than Destiny 1 ever was. There is more opportunities for loot and progression than there were in Destiny 1. You just have a lot of angry and entitled players who are too lazy to LEARN how this game is different than Destiny 1. Too lazy to figure out how THIS game's systems work...and how to get the most out of them. People just want to unthinkingly bring their ways of playing Destiny 1 to THIS game...and refuse to accept that it is a NEW game for which they will need to make NEW gameplay habits if they want to get the most out of it. But then that's work. Easier to simply whine and complain.
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In a loot based game grinding is a necessity. If there's no grind then why even make it loot based. Takes all of he fun out of getting loot. It's simpler for the worst imo. Many people had fun with the grind. It wasn't a chore to play at all. Just part of the game that GREATLY increases replayability. Loot drops so easily now that I don't even care to do the activities. Used to spam strikes for a specific gun now I don't care because I have literally everything I want. Loot always being the same without having an extremely large loot pool is just dumb
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I suppose I can agree with you on the fact that the game is more simple. I don't think I can call a game a better designed game if so many people are unhappy. Call them whiners if you want, but a game shouldn't be so much work, it should be fun. And regardless of whether these players are "playing the game right," they're not having fun - which is why we play games to begin with. Perhaps D1 wasn't the big freak-train mistake everyone claimed it to be. For all its flaws, it was a fundamentally fun game to play. The biggest flaws of the game were easily addressable (separating PVE from PVP and adding optional matchmaking for everything). Perhaps all the risks weren't actually necessary to make a fun game everyone WANTS to play over and over again. You're entitled to your opinion on whether the game is better designed, etc.. Your right that it is an entirely new game, but it feels like it shares NOTHING in common with the old one - which is a bad thing when there was so many things people enjoyed about the old one in the first place. Why change things people like? If they're having fun, let them have fun. Afterall, that is what games are for. Having fun.
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TheArtistにより編集済み: 9/22/2017 8:55:35 PM[quote] I don't think I can call a game a better designed game if so many people are unhappy.[/quote] I can....and have **absolutely** no problems doing so. In my job I train and mentor people, and one of the most important lessons in professionalization that they have to learn is pretty simple: [i]"Someone being **mad**==/== You having done something wrong."[/i] People get mad or get "unhappy" for one reason and one reason only. Someone or something has failed to meet their **expectations**...and they feel that they are OWED this from the situation. But that has nothng to do with whether or not those expectations are reasonable or fair. ...and in the real world, very often those expectations are not reasonable and are not fair. But humans as a group are often immature, selfish, self-absorped and judgemental. They think only of what they want...and never stop to consider any other perspectives. ..and that is exactly what is going on here. 1. We demanded Bungie fix what was broken in Destny 1. But now we resent the changes necessary to fix those broken game system.s 2. We demaned Bungie balance PvP. But now we resent the changes necessary to achieve that balance....and the changes that resulted to the game as a result of that balance.e 3. We demanded that the game be less grindy. Bungie made the game less grindy...and now people resent the changes because there is no need to grind. YOU'RE FREE TO PLAY THE GAME BECAUSE YOU **WANT** TO PLAY IT...NOT BECAUSE YOU'LL "FALL BEHIND" IF YOU DON'T. But the compulsive grinders are mad because they can't get that constant dopamine hit, and there's nothing they "have" to do once they're done with the weekly milestones. 4. We demanded that gear be given fixed rolls and be customizable. Now people resent the fact that this (predictably) shrank the loot pool and changed the focus of the game away from grinding for spedific rolls. I could go one for another 15 minutes like this, but it would only BELABOR a point that should be obvious here: We demanded that Bungie give is a NEW game. A different game than Destiny 1. Bungie responded...and now people are whining like schoolgirls who didnt' get the pony Santa "promised" for Christmas. THEY'RE MAD BECAUSE THE GAME IS DIFFERENT AND THEY'RE TOO LAZY AND STUBBORN TO ENAGE THE GAME, AND FIND OUT WHAT THIS NEW GAME HAS TO OFFER. They'd rather just be mad and feel victimized because its DIFFERENT. When people talk about an ENTITLED and SPOILED generation of gamers...LOOK AROUND. Because this is what it looks like...and this is what it sounds like. Unreasonable. Unfair....and people who clearly seem to think that their $60 entitles them to a game that coughs up an unending stream of new thigns to do...and one that is custom-tailored to their personal prefences as a gamer. Despite the fact that they are just one of FOUR -blam!-ING million people who played this game yesterday. All of whom have different ideas of what the game is and what is should be, and how it should have changed from Destiny 1. ...and I GUAREN--blam!-ING-TEE you that all 4 million people who played this game yesterday aren' on this forum WHINING about not getting their pony.
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I think that they do, but people aren't wanting to accept it. Bungie clearly wants D2 to be a PVP-oriented game that is more akin to an FPS. It wants to maintain the appearance of being a loot-grinder in PVE because it KNOWS that the majority of its population is PVE oriented, so they can't just overnight come out and say "Psyche! Destiny is actually our way of making Halo a Multi-Platform FPS!" Their PVE players would be in an uproar if they did that, and they'd likely lose more than half their audience. So instead of doing it overnight, they've just done it incrementally.
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Except that isn't the pretense they brought the entire player-base to the game under. It was an MMO-style FPS, and the idea was wildly popular. There was a lot of excitement for the game. People liked Destiny 1. They had complaints, but they were typically things like gutting the story or doing things in a clunky way (grimoire). As the game progressed it tended to be things like weapon balance. There are plenty of flat FPS games available and coming out, but that isn't what they sold the community and that isn't what the majority people are expecting. Whether they overnight or incrementally slide things that way, the end result is the same - a dying game, and community ill will from a sense of 'betrayal'. I personally don't think what you describe is actually their intention - I just think Bungie is really good at bungling, and it'll take them a bit to get the execution right.
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BXR Lonestarにより編集済み: 9/22/2017 8:04:16 PM[quote] I personally don't think what you describe is actually their intention - I just think Bungie is really good at bungling, and it'll take them a bit to get the execution right.[/quote] I'm throwing intent out the window because I don't think you can prove intent either way. But what is clear is that Bungie is making a conscious decision to have PVP take a priority over PVE in a game that is actually advertised and sold to consumers on the basis of its PVE experiences. Your probably right in that this is likely the result of Bungie's incompetence over actual malicious intent, but that doesn't change the results. This game will cease to make ANYBODY happy so long as Bungie won't accept the reality that PVE and PVP players have different needs/desires for this game and they needed to be treated differently in their respective modes in order for everyone to be happy. If they can't do that, they're stuck with picking one side over the other, and with this game, they've clearly sided with the PVP Crowd. And the proof is in the pudding. Look at all the people complaining about how there is no incentive to play PVE, that the game is ultimately boring, frustrating, tedious, etc. The reality is that because they refuse to separate the modes COMPLETELY, making PVP play like a traditional shooter has also forced the PVE to play more or less like a traditional shooter. And people don't replay shooter campaigns over and over for 1000's of hours. I find all of this funny because this is pretty much what I predicted would happen if D2 didn't separate PVE from PVP and wasn't the second coming of Y1 Destiny. The game has always been inching closer to the state of being more of a traditional FPS, but D2 was a giant leap in that direction.
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And they will still lose their players if they keep it up. The PvP is a borefest. The weapon variety is abysmal. The exotics are too few and and even fewer are interesting and fun to use. (No I don't think exotics should be over powered.) They should have faced the facts that the majority of love for Destiny was that it was a loot game that keep people searching for that loot. The PvP was fast paced and fun. Yeah it was imbalanced but if they had learned their lesson and balanced pve and PvP separately they could have reeled it in a bit and it would still be fun Destiny PvP instead of the boring garbage that we currently have.
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The pvp is so slow paced now. So many guns don't even feel satisfying to use now. Exotics never had to be overpowered they just had to feel cool or different. The perk should pretty much only be situational instead of the outright increase to damage *cough exotic HCs cough*. Guns like the supercell and Monte Carlo were perfect examples of what exotics should be.
