[b]What do you like?[/b] -High Range Hand Cannons feel satisfying, they don't have this ghost bullet feeling we've been having since TTK. As instance now we can use the Ace of Spade with Perfect Balance in PVP and get nice results. -Low ROF Pulses are back and it is a good thing. They do not shine on every corner of every map, but with a passive playstyle they can be very efficient. Extremely unforgiving though. -High ROF Autorifles are interesting to play now that shotguns are less prevalent. Low ROF autos are doing work in PVE, they're fun to play with. -Scouts are great. -More primaries battles are good, even if they feel forced due to Special Ammo nerf. -Juggernaut nerf feels ok, barely no more Titans apeing in PVP. [b]What do you hate?[/b] -In PVP the high ROF HC are still not great, due to sidearms having better efficiency at more or less the same range. -Very High ROF Pulses are a thing of the past, ie an Hawksaw is so much more forgiving than a Clever Dragon that any player will choose the first one over the other. -The Blink Nerf was totally uncalled. I never use it, but still, it doesn't make sense. That's the kind of ability that make Destiny fun and different. -Sidearms keeping their ammo through death. God it is annoying. If I have to lose my sniper/fusion/shotgun ammo at each death, so be it. But how come RandomMcRandomface can accumulate his Wormwood ammo throughout the whole game ? -Now that grenades are more prevalent to prevent pushes, how come 1 subclass out of 9 can escape the tracking of some of them ? Everytime I shadestep away from an axion I feel dirty. It is not a gamebreaking advantage, but still an unfair one. -The flow of the game in 3v3 is now boring. I don't play Trials, so I can't speak for this playlist. But in Skirmish or Salvage the way it is now played does not feel fun enough to play more than one game. Die, respawn, see your teammates waiting near a green box with Skorri instead of trying to get a kill. Icebreakers, Wormwood and NLB everywhere. The Special ammo economy in the past allowed for some great aggressive plays, the pace has changed a lot and not for the better. ie Now all the blueberries that I got matchmade with think the same "I can lose all my ammo if I die so I'll play extremely conservatively, gotta focus more of my survival than getting kills to help my team winning." Or they have NLB-Wormwood. Boring. -The Truth nerf. Cutting down to 2 in the mag' would have been understandable and balanced. 1 is laughable. [b]What do you think is good but could be better?[/b] -Hawkmoon feels like it is hitting shots, but it could be a great gun with a tiny bit more range. Now despite the accuracy buff it is still a Tier 2 option if you put it next to Vendor Palindrome, or any other nice rolled Hand Cannon. #MakeExoticsGreatAgain -I kinda dig the Red Death changes, strangely. Very curious to see how it will be when the next Hotfix comes in. -Mid ROF Pulses are not enticing at all, whether in PVP or PVE. They don't have enough "punch" to compete with the other archetypes. [b]What would you change? [/b] -Reduce the amount of time without HUD after Blink. And give Astrocyte Verse a real utility, like keeping the HUD at all time. Right now there is no reason for a Warlock to use a very cool looking helmet. -Add 1 rocket to Truth's mag. -Prevent Shadestep to evade tracking grenades. -Sidearms do not accumulate ammo through death. -Special Ammo changes tweaked : now we lose half our ammo after dying. With a change like people will be more inclined to go back fighting after a death instead of hiding in a corner waiting for special. Shotguns and fusions (high risks and fun weapons) will be back. -Stability buff to Mid ROF pulses. If those are not the most efficient archetype, let it be at least the easiest to use. Like the VoC archetype is now. -Stability buff for Fast ROF HC. If we need to spam the trigger to compete in TTK with Mid ROF, at least make the recoil controllable. -Reduce Stormcaller Armor while in Super. Whitout Special those guys are impossible to kill. Hammers and Blades are are protected in their Super, but the range of their Super allow their opponents a chance to kill them. -Reduce the efficiency of the FrostEEs boots, wombo spamming followed by Wormwod is obnoxious and it is a growing tendency. -Do not put anymore Extended Mag on a HMG. Unless we have a shutdown Super those guys are impossible to kill now with only primaries, and they can go on an easy 5-10 killstreak in 3v3.

Eventually people's fingers are gonna start getting wrecked so side arm usage will drop. Especially with those highest fire rate versions.

Thought this patch was supposed to incourage primary use? Gg bungie side arms ftw...

I've played twice since the new update. I wonder how many actually stopped playing? Moved on to For Honor then Mass Effect . I'm done

@josh_hamrick on Twitter let him know how you feel guardians!

I'm still pissed about nerfing heavy machine guns. I have more rounds in a side arm . Nerf nerf nerf nerf . Just make the game dance battles !

Wow, noone is talking about shotguns losing precision damage? Am I alone in loving headshots in pve and pvp? Shotguns are still fun to use running around on patrol but feel super weak in strikes and not getting headshots numbers makes it feel a bit boring. At least with a fusion rifle it can be a challenge to hit with every projectile but with a shotgun you tend to be so close that if you miss it's because you probably sneezed while pulling the trigger 💦. #bringbackprecisiondamage Lol.

the big problem is the special ammo economy!!!!!!! why would you penalize players for dying???? This makes absolutely no sense.SO i die and re spawn where an enemy is close to me or better yet camping spawn location and they have special ammo and all i have is primary how is that fair??? Special was fine the way it was the only thing that needed attention was shot guns,and not a total nerf but probably just little tweaks to range.Or buffing primaries so you could compete with shot guns a bit better. The only other problem is the sidearm thing where it has to fast a time to kill and just took place of shot guns..The range should be reduced for side arms,especially when you can get in one on one with other player using full auto and you can just stand there taking all there shots and side arm them down.. The worst part of side arms is the fact that Bungie wants to impose there will of making players use a side arm or you will not always have special ammo when you die which is total bullshit! if i die and lose special ammo the a side arm user should also lose there ammo.But no Bungie felt like how do we get players to use side arms? and some genius was like he lets let them keep there ammo even the boxes that they collect along the way so the can have 100's of bullet to use and if other players dont want to use side arms WELL -blam!- THEM!!!!!!!!!

Rant number 5 Is anyone still alive there at Bungie as it's been so very quiet with the total lack of response to the multitude of very angry players? On the bold optimistic assumption that you will get up off your overpaid fat asses and actually do something regarding this god forsaken patch could I ask you do something regarding the hammers, golden gun and spin blade endless super crap checkout YouTube for more details. In the last week I've encountered 4 clowns using this 1 in pve and 3 in pvp, now as sparrow is a prerequisite for doing this it puzzled me on pvp that I was on a levels with no vehicles available The tell on people using it is no fiery/ghostly aura around the person they just have infinite hammers, spin blade or golden gun. So how about fixing this crap please instead of balls up this game further with useless bloody patches and the courtesy of an actual response from someone on this and previous rants this week would be greatly appreciated

What could be better? Stop screwing over pve equipment/perks for emphasis on pvp balance as it consistently has close to 200k more players daily than crucible does according to the destinytracker website. (even before this patch) As much as you'd like to be, you aren't esports yet. (That joke of a league ESL doesn't count either)

First of all you can not address weapon until you fix the lag, which you have no desire in doing. Second sidearm should be no different then the other secondary weapon with ammo. Thirdly you must not play your game enough to know the problem which mean you have no concept in fixing your game. Seem to me you need to quit and find another career. There seem to be no one that has any idea on how to address the issues of this game.

Give fusions a buff, with the special ammo nerf I haven't been killed by one fusion yet.

Could I please have Truth as it was. I was quite happy with it in my vault whilst I used my harrowed elisums frenzy. Shit... I shouldn't of told you that!! Please don't nerf it!!! You can keep truth, I will give you my vex too! Leave the rest of my stuff alone. I have earned it and upgraded it and only I use it badly.

Go back and Destiny on the PS3/360. The PvPr is so much fun! Without all the BS patches Destiny is great again. Just try it. You'll be amazed at how fun it is on the older consoles.

It appears that shoulder charge also picked up the same activation/deactivation changes as jug shield did. Was this intended or was this an unintended change like the health regen issues. Also the Truth nerf was too harsh 2 rockets per mag would have been a better change.

I like the primary. Hate the special spawn . I was a main NLb player but I cannot use a sidearm . I have a Godroll but it is just a terrible class . This game is already limited to combinations due to exotics. In trials it's stupid to play a team that is destroying you without being able to change the strategy just to sit there and get 5-0 and penalized for switching guns .. I want to play the game and use the guns. This game is as bad as the president is and special ammo being an immigrant. We like certain guns for certain reasons. Some things needed a change but special ammo could have stay on spawn every single freaking time.

Just went over and looked at Trials participation numbers with this you know being the only new thing in the game a pvp patch to fix the you know pvp play in the game and hey you managed to bring back no players well done.

This is something I've been mulling over for the past few days, but as much as I enjoy them, sidearms aren't special, and shouldn't be considered special weapons for that matter. Adding them as a separate category, similar to artifacts, would allow for greater build diversity. ...this might take a minute to explain... Special Weapons in Destiny are the One Hit Kill weapons that you just don't have ammo for all of the time, the differences at the most basic level is the ideal ranges they are used to engage. Shotguns, fusion rifles, snipers. Sidearms really don't fit, they act as a counter to all of them equally well, with the right tactics and situational awareness, but they don't have that special one hit kill capability to make them feel special. A sidearm is a last ditch weapon, used when you got nothing left to use, at least in other games, and as glorified in the movies. We have pistols with various magazine sizes, and the power of a reanimated Last Word. This should not be the case, the are becoming a meta unto themselves. Fixing the carryover ammo issue is a step in the correct direction, but the game can go one step further by separating them and having every guardian carry a sidearm. Technically, I have zero knowledge of the game engine, but that not withstanding, I believe the mechanic is not currently being used in the game, and should not interfere with much of anything. It would revolve around the use of the Y button (triangle). As it stands we have three weapons and two functions associated with the Y button. Equiped weapon, press Y to switch to a unequiped non-heavy weapon, and hold Y to equip heavy weapon. Adding a function to a double press of the Y button would allow for my above suggestion to removing sidearms from special weapons. Starting with a primary weapon equiped, pressing Y would act like normal and switch to a special weapon. As your one hit killer runs out of ammo, you can quickly double tap Y to switch the special weapon for a sidearm in the choices given to the single Y press function. With a sidearm now equiped, pressing Y would allow the guardian to switch back and forth from a primary to the sidearm. Now having found some special ammo, but out of primary let's say, with the primary equiped double tapping Y would switch it with to stowed special weapon on the single Y tap function. Holding Y would be unaffected. Just some thoughts and wishful thinking. Maybe it's not to late for Destiny 2, by the way when is that coming out?

I think this is the 1st time I can honestly say, "Great job!" after a weapon tuning patch. Crucible is fun again for the 1st time in a very long time and I haven't even dusted off my hand cannons for a test run yet. Like the way special ammo is playing out in match. Love the shotgun changes, especially since you guys finally realized that you could buff PVE while at the same time nerfing PVP. Actually had fun with a low RoF Pulse instead of rage quitting. Sidearms at least have a purpose now. Kudos to finally realizing that the Hunter's solar melee should do solar damage. Nothing obviously bad, but I'm not sure of the value in... Truth nerf - really? Why? Titan no shoulder charge while airborne - does this mean that Titans will never ever again be able to actually do the VoG jumping puzzle? But really, this was a great change.