運営は錯乱したのですか？今回の糞パッチのせいで周りのフレンドがみんな辞めてしまったし、PVPはメインウェポンしか楽しめない糞ゲーになってしまった。何が『全てを超える』なのでしょうか。β版からクソクソと言われては居ましたが、ここまで落ちぶれるとは正直思ってなかった。

[quote]There are a lot of threads out there already on the new changes, but I wanted to give a central location to point everyone to when they ask me where they can share their thoughts. Now that you have had a few days to play the new changes we want to hear what you experiences have been playing. What do you like? The original Destiny What do you hate? Bungie and every nerf that has ever happened What do you think is good but could be better? The community and to make it better get rid of all streamers What would you change? Id fire bungie and all their developers would loose their ability to think as its broken and must be nerfed.[/quote]

Stop nerfing things. Thats what ruins this game more than anything else. The constant nerfs. Specifically in this case... Nerfing blink. Why? It already was nerfed into the ground and barely used. Why nerf it further. Special movement abilities like that are what make this game more fun than any other fps. Special Ammo nerfs are also getting old. Make primaries competitive with specials instead of nerfing the availability of ammo. That just leads to power imbalances based on map control. Its like the objective becomes special ammo control, not whatever the game mode objective is.

Bungie, please don't make it so you lose all special ammo upon death. It's so annoying when you pick it up, get stuck by a sticky grenade, then lose ALL of your special. Please try and find a healthy balance between the last update and the update now for special. Like for example. You lose half of your special ammo, but not ALL of it. Please, Bungie. It's so annoying losing all of it. Please fix this soon. This update just made the game less fun then it already was.

[quote]I like specials as power weapons. For someone who didn't camp but strove not to die this is fantastic. My vacancy puts down sidearms easily, I get plenty of ammo, I already used my primary more so losing it for a life is no big deal to me, I can rush people so used to having a secondary at all times I can do it with a primary and I can do it confidently with my fusion because there aren't 6 shotguns waiting at all times. Constantly available special put me in a constantly defensive playstyle to avoid constantly trading with the lemmings. It empowered players to bline and suicide run often trading over and over because death had no penalty besides score which to be honest unless its iron banner people aren't focusing on winning and shaft anyone who is with that playstyle. That rush playstyle is still avaialable though. Definitely more limited but there. The constant availability of special hamstring where you could go on a map heavily and what and where it was safe to engage constantly. So for me this created a massive variety of encounters I did not see at all before because of the oppressive power of special. I can flank now. I can actually flank and despite the radar giving me away completely I actually have a chance now. As for 3v3 well I don't think the rules should be the same they play completely differently and elimination even more so[/quote] I also agree with the post patch changes to sidearms, no land (needs real flinch but doesn't need the flinch of other snipers), blink, etc.

I wanted to follow-up on my post from yesterday. I just tried playing clash three times and didn't finish one game. The first one yet again had Titans with no back up plans jumping across the map shotgunning people in the face. The strategy is pretty simple: they get the first kill then the opposition doesn't can't fight back because they never have special. IF I spawned with Fusion Rifle ammo, I would stand a chance, but since I don't I am just a sitting target with no chance of fighting back. There's no fun in playing that type of game. BTW, Running into this two days in a row can't be an accident.This must be what number of people are doing. The second and third games were just filled with people camping with snipers and scout rifles. It was boring and tedious and I'm not spending my time doing that. There was zero fun in any of these games. So I turned off my Xbox and I really hope at this point I have learned my lesson that the people who work at this game just don't care about fun. I fully expect IB to be horrible, as those good with sidearms will wreck everyone who isn't. Supremacy was designed to be a special weapon game, an now the only people who will win are those using the only special weapons not rendered useless. Check your numbers after next week. I bet sidearms and Universal remote rule the day.

Congratulations Bungie this week as the previous to lowered the participation in osiris in 130,000 games, but you continue doing so what you fancy and without listening to the community, thank you for sinking destiny

Least amount of fun I have had in PVP since launch. I would take any META over this one.

Well for one, why isn't this post pinned at the top of the forum thread?

Trying to ignore us by unpinning post?

Bump, this still needs to be pinned. You can't have seen all the hate yet......

You have completely ruined trials of Osiris. No special weapon can be used except the sidearm and the ice breaker. You've ruined almost all snipers and shotguns. Also I don't know why you guys feel the need to buff weapons that aren't used. If people aren't using the sidearm who cares. Don't go and ruin every other gun because of it. There's always going to be a gun class that goes unused, you'll never get balanced.

I WANT INSTANT SPECIAL AFTER I DIE

[u]Primaries:[/u] 1. Addressed issues I had with in air primary accuracy in the update. 2. Adjust how high caliber rounds affect how much flinch a weapon causes so that: (a). The difference in flinchibility between two different primary weapon types(including side arms) is minimal to none. (b). One archetype of a weapon with high caliber rounds doesn't become significantly more useful than another archetype with high caliber rounds within a weapon class. (c). Shooting a weapon with any flinchibility that can be reachable w/ HCR on a certain weapon archetype does not maintain the same effect across an entire map(like first light or Bastion) in comparison to directly in front of you. A.K.A affected by range. (d). Never should the mentality in gun fights be "who can flinch the other off their aim more." It should only ever be "who can keep their aim on their target." So in that case, make it so primaries barely suffer from flinch at all - with HighestRoF weapons suffering the most, but only by a slight margin. It would put a weapon with HCR and one without HCR on an even playing field. Remember, before, a clever dragon with HCR was leagues better than one without HCR. That shouldn't be the case. If primaries suffered from nearly no flinch, then it wouldn't be. So why not? 3. Just a note: I don't know if you haven't noticed, but giving a weapon a bad base stability and a bad base recoil direction is pretty much asking for no one to use the weapon. [b]Hand cannons[/b] [spoiler]1. Bloom issue addressed.... almost completely in the update. There's just one problem: while I was all for adjusting when range drop off began, I never at any point believed that damage at farther ranges should've been decreased. If I were going to adjust something out at the far ranges, I would nerf aim assist stickiness at that range. If you can manage to get your tiny reticle dead on your target from a long distance without much sticking, you should do a good amount of damage. This way, it isn't too much of a detriment to PvE as well as most enemies being wide or big so they're easier to target compared to guardians in the crucible who are skinny and fast. 2. However, a new issue that they didn't consider came up too. With all HC's being so accurate and killing so effectively, why EVER use the Ill Will archetype? It requires the same number of shots to kill and requires the shots in the same fashion(1 head 2 body), but is just slower to do so by 4 whole frames or .13 seconds. No one is going to use that especially if you're basically saying that the archetype is only usable if you have a small mag and LiTC. That's it, and that's wrong. To make them viable again you have to do this: adjust that archetype so that each round fires with a .76 second delay between each but with each shot doing around 67 body damage and 101 head damage. To balance out the requirement of only needing two shots to kill, decrease the recoil direction across the archetype by a small amount and makes sure the recoil animation is slowed down. Not by too much otherwise it just becomes completely unfair and puts a kill at the complete mercy of RNG recoil but not too little so it doesn't award people who don't have that great of an aim. [/spoiler] [b]Scout rifles[/b] [spoiler]1. For a scout rifle to be efficient, you have to be able to aim at the head. Some scouts do this fine: mida, Cryptic, tuonela, etc.; however some just don't: angel's advocate and NL shadow to name a few. There is a correlation to this dilemma - a reason why these weapons underperform nearly every other scout: aim assist. These are the faster firing archetypes of the scout rifle class so keeping aim is a lot harder. Having a very low aim assist compared to the others only makes this problem worse. For example, compare NL shadow to the Suros SR-47 and see which one is better to use - Angel's advocate to Distant Star. Their low aim assist barely makes them viable as options. This means that there has to be a threshold for how low any scout's aim assist stat can go - preferably 55. Note: do not compare Angel's to Mida... you'll regret what you'll find. 2. Highest Rate of Fire scouts are up for debate - NL Shadow archetype: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/220146359/0/0. Most likely though, with what I'm going to say in point 4 it'll most likely be the 31 body-47 head buff. If I end deciding otherwise, then point 4 would have no effect on the highest RoF archetype. 3. Lowest Rate of Fire scouts should always be 75 to the head and 50 to the body unless it's an exotic which may go over if its perks allow it. As a balance, chaos dogma - the current only scout that does a base damage of 75-50 - would have its RoF improved by a single frame since its perks are non-exchangeable/set-in-stone while others in its archetype are RNG with their perks. 4. Now for the coup de grâce: all current RoF archetypes excluding the Touch of Malice with its exotic perk proc'd will have an improved RoF by a single frame. The two fastest archetypes would have a TTK of .8 seconds down from .9 seconds, the mid RoF archetype would have a TTK of .9 seconds down from 1 second, and the lowest RoF would have a TTK of .7 seconds down from .8 seconds. However, if needed AFTER the increases are in effect, ranges will be brought down by 7.5-10% across the board.[/spoiler] [b]Auto rifles[/b] 1. [STILL THINKING] [b]Pulse Rifles[/b] [spoiler]1. Reverse the RoF nerf to the clever dragon archetype and replace it by making it only do 22 headshot damage. I would achieve this by making it so that archetype alone has instead a precision damage multiplier of 1.47x. This'll more normalize the headshot requirement to what it should be 2. Increase the RoF of mid-high impact pulse rifles so their TTK/DPS is actually comparable to the other two - especially in comparison with pulses in the update. This archetype should be a 7-shot kill at around the same TTK as the lower archetypes. However, I should note that I myself don't know how people personally calculate the time between each shot in a burst and the time between each trigger pull, so just know that the time between trigger pulls would be adjusted to achieve that TTK. 3. Reverse the RoF buff to the highest impact archetype and instead increase stability across the board by 20% to a max of a base stability. At the same time, improve the Recoil Direction stat of Spare Change.25 by 20%.[/spoiler]

I personally still feel that Auto Rifles are too under powered, if it were me i would make them absolute kings in their effective range by having them kill significantly faster (most primaries kill in roughly 0.8s i would make auto-rifles kill in 0.5s with all head shots and 0.6 with all body shots) than any other primary within their effective range but you step even a foot outside that range and they lose most of that killing power and become almost useless (something like losing 50-60% of their damage immediately outside their max range and doing no damage at say recommended hand cannon engagement range) but that's just me personally and idk how others would feel. My other issue is with the special ammo change. Like others i think this was a stupid change and would personally have preferred to have less special ammo spawn throughout a match (perhaps twice per match in regular crucible and once every 3-4 rounds in ToO) as this means that those that want to use their shotguns and sniper rifles can do so but they will find themselves having to use their primaries if they play aggressively and use up all their ammo within the first minuet or rounds of a match and have to wait before they can do this again. Naturally some weapons will still shine if this change were made but none will make you feel like you are being punished for not using said weapons (ie sidearms, icebreaker, invective).

I like the thoughts. No land beyond doesn't need the same flinch as other snipers just actual flinch. Buff autos a bit more. Shotguns may have been a tad overnerfed.

What do you like? - Primaries feel good What do you hate? - Not having fun anymore playing. In y1 everything was op, frustrating but fun. In y2 a few things got nerfed (you -bungie- love that word, I'm starting to hate it) but the game was still fun. Y3, lot's of fun, almost like y1. And then this patch, the no fun patch. It's HORRIBLE to lose all your ammo every time you die, I feel like being forced to use primaries just to get killed by sidearms/nlb. I DO NOT want to use those 2 guns, never liked them. NO. FUN. What do you think is good but could be better? - Don't really know What would you change? - When you die you lose only the reserve ammo so you still have to pick up green ammo if you want to use your special (not because is easier to get a kill but because they are FUN, destiny used to be a lot of fun). - And maybe the no-hud using blink can get reworked. Now that jump is even worst. Before was bad but fun to use, now is bad and frustrating to use

Thoughts for Crucible balance in Destiny (I want to make clear that this information is solely based on my opinion and experience playing in the crucible.) Weapons: • Auto rifles: For starters, I am not a huge fan of auto rifles because I just don't care for their play style. However, I have played with them and all other weapons and to me they feel underpowered compared to most other weapons. When I think of an auto rifle, I am thinking that I am going to aim for the body, the majority of the time I use it, and not so much head shots. Also, I think close to mid-range effectiveness. To me, this is their strength and I don't feel this has been achieved in the crucible even post-patch 2.5.0.2. My recommendation for making auto rifles on par with other weapons (per their strengths) would be to eliminate precession damage and its bonus and increase the DPS to the body by a multiplier that makes them a contender to hand cannons and pulse rifles in their respective range effectiveness (close to mid-range). I believe this could encourage players to use auto rifles for what they are meant to be and have fun knowing that they can use a weapon without feeling it is useless in its optimal range effectiveness. • Pulse rifles: This is one of my favorite weapons because it is more of my play stile. Before patch 2.5.0.2, they were overpowered and owning in the crucible. Post patch, I think they have come to a balance and perform pretty well at their optimal range. • Hand Cannons: I love hand cannons as well, but I feel post patch 2.5.0.2 they have become out of hand. They are so out of hand, that I rarely see anybody using other weapons because they cannot compete with the over poweredness of the hand cannons. Personally, I thought hand cannons worked fine pre-patch and what made them a struggle was that pulse rifles were so over powered at that time. I feel that if hand cannons were left alone and pulse rifles were tweaked like they were in patch 2.5.0.2 it would have balanced out. • Shotguns: I am not a huge fan of shotguns either but didn't mind using them here and there for fun, as I like to explore with various weapons. I like the changes that were made to shotguns in patch 2.5.0.2, I think that balance them out for what they are intended to do. For me, the major concern for the shotgun was its range. I don't think shotguns should be 1 shot killing anybody from, what feel like, 30 feet away. Their range was out of control and that was just ridiculous. I think giving shotguns a standard range (close quarters) and eliminating any range perks could assist with this balance. I love that shotguns don't get a precession multiplier because that is not what they are for and they sure don't need AA or magnetism if they are in close quarters. Classes: • Hunter: I would have to disagree with the changes to the Bladedancer class in patch 2.5.0.2. The bladedancer (more specifically, the hunter class) has really low armor as it is and to take away the armor it gets from using its super is just flat out ridiculous. For one, bladedance is a roaming super that can be picked off my experienced snipers and shotgun users and other players supers. In addition, the bladedance has to be in close quarters in order to even get any super kills. They are not like the titan smash that can run into a room and slam and be done, no, they have to kill each individual person while being shot at by enemy teammates. What is the point of having a super if it cannot do what it is supposed to do? I believe the bladedance needs that armor and health regeneration after a kill to survive. Warlocks stormtrance and titan hammer at least have range for survival, so, I would like to know how bladedance is OP? Miscellaneous: • I think the whole special amo nerf was ridiculous and the fact that side arms were not affected was unintelligent. I understand trying to encouraged more primary engagements but honestly, the games have been a drag and they haven't been enjoyable because players are now preoccupied with camping or farming special amo than actually engaging in the game. Also, it has really been discouraging using other special weapons other than side arm. My suggestion to help with this balance is to not take away all of the special amo upon death, rather, have us spawn with half the magazine clip (i.e 2 bullets as opposed to 4) this way players are still encouraged to use their favorite special weapon and have enough amo to use on a "special occasion" such as on supers or when you have to reload your primary weapon. Sidearms need to be treated the same as other special weapons, except have their amo reset to original clip size to be on par with other special weapons. • The health regenerations nerfs need to be returned, especially on the weapons because they have basically been run into the ground. The red death used to be one of my favorite weapons, but now it cannot contend due to all the nerfs. I suggest that instead of nerfing a lot of things that people are identifying as OP, just create a counter. This way people get the option to choose a style of play as opposed to all playing with the same weapons and killing the fun. @Bungie, I hope you have read through this long narrative and will consider my points for improvement. Thank you

Cut 3v3 Special Crate timer to 30/45 seconds, leave it alone in 6v6, and in Elimination start every round with half the starting ammo (as in, 3 sniper rounds instead of 6, and so on). That way you can leave Sidearms alone and we will still have enough primary fights.