(TLDR: First part explains why Hive can't control an Ogre and what Oryx does in 'taking' that allowed him to control an ogre. This was the original post, and the other parts are elaboration upon this.) See... people confuse Ogres to be some sort of 'heavy infantry'. They are not infantry. They are wild beasts with rage and pain as fuel for destruction. They don't 'think'. They can't 'plan'. You do not tell a ogre what to do. Rather, you place it in a certain spot and you let the Ogre's nature take care of the rest. That is why they are often guardians for Hive crypts. They aren't told "Guard this place." Rather, they are like trapped animals, and wait for any prey to enter. Like a very, very big rabid watch dog. They are more of a trap than they are guards. So when they are transported to the field of war. They are not directed with tactics and reason. They unleash the Ogre, and let the Ogre do whatever the hell it wants. It's just that, unfortunately, the Ogre loves killing those of the light. Because the Ogre is purpose made flesh. If you wanted to take the word 'rage' and give it a physical body you would probably make an Ogre. That's all they are, rage pointed in the right direction. When you use Memory of Timur, you point that rage outward at your enemies instead of at yourself. You become an ally to rage for a moment. Even Oryx can not control pure rage. He has to tame it. Sure, the Hive can 'tame' Ogres into not killing every single thing they see. But they store it, and Ogres are volatile creatures to be certain. So when even the slightest hint of a reason for the rage can be unleashed the Ogres thunder into any battle they can find themselves in. When Oryx takes an Ogre, he gives them more purpose than pain and rage. He said to have given them joy. To, for once in their lives, enjoy and take glee in destroying their enemies. They are free of their primal devices and given a higher order thinking (for an Ogre that is). Thus, a willing Ogre is much easier to control than a ravenous, insane wall of rage. The Ogre follows the Hive battles and wars because that is all it is, all it will ever do. And when they run out of things to destroy, it'll be placed back in a crypt to stalk an empty hall for infinity until its use is needed again. When given the nature of joy, the Ogre 'wants' to fight. Not because that's all it will ever be, but rather, because it finds a purpose in doing it. It turns from being a festering wall of rage (to be used only when needed) but now a directed weapon of true war, true domination, true purpose. The purpose of joy. The love of delivering the pain it so long felt to the enemies of Oryx. For Ogre's, war is a natural drive. For Taken Ogre's, war is a coveted purpose. Oryx has turned Ogre's from 'rage' into a 'joy of killing'. -- (TLDR: How an Ogre becomes a vessel of pure rage and why Ogre's are simply 'uncontrollable' if not Taken) For all those who are saying "Why didn't you talk about how all Ogres are Thrall?" I know that, believe me. And I even wrote a reply about that to someone else in the thread (not my Thread but OP's) here if you want to go searching. Which I doubt. This wasn't about 'how an ogre is made'. I'm showing you what an Ogre is. The nature of an Ogre and why they're so very uncontrollable. The reason? Because if all you have is rage and pain in a body it will be dying to be let out. And, of course, we see that every single time we find one of these mad beasts. That is why the Hive have to hold Ogre's down during their 'Taming' rituals because all that rage their trying to drive into the Ogre's body would escape in the form of ravaging anger. That is why agonizing experiments are devised on them. In Hive society (well... religious evolution), notice how Ogres are never a 'position'? But even when they are 'tamed' they are not 'controlled' by the Hive. Think about a bungee cord. That's an Ogre. Now, the bungee cord being the Ogre, think of every mutilation, pain, and suffering experienced by the Ogre as a hand pulling the bungee cord as hard as they can in any direction. Eventually you get 2, 3. 5 people pulling on it as hard as they can. That's a lot of tension. They pull this Ogre so far apart, so thin, so intensely that they break everything in the cord except pain and rage. So that is all that can remain; otherwise the cord would snap. When an Ogre is 'tamed' it simply means it is that as they gradually reel the 'bungee cord' out of its tense state the only thing that is left is anger, pain, and rage. Because everything else has been squeezed or killed out or broken off. The Ogre, simply put, goes from 'mindless rage' to 'pure rage'. And that is the extent normal Hive can do to an Ogre as we know of now. Well... except Oryx. But I talked about him. This is why they can't be controlled. There is nothing to control anymore once an Ogre is alive long enough. They become a force of a new, sick form of nature. And nature can be directed or manipulated, but not controlled. -- (TLDR: Opinion regarding the Splicer Priest Kovik and his Ogre 'pet') Oh, and the whole Kovik thing. I just assume that SIVA augmented the Ogre's mind so it could be manipulated. It was more of a puppet than a beast. Again, this shows manipulation. Kovik did not 'control' the beast. Rather, the Beast simply would not attack Kovik. SIVA changed the Ogre's intent, not how it acted. 'Mind control' would be actually making an Ogre calm, obedient, and not have to be restrained at all, or change the Ogre's behavior in some way. Just like how an 'optical illusion' is not 'mind control'. Sure, you think you're seeing truth. But you're really not. The Ogre thought it was attacking all of its enemies, but it really wasn't. -- And, of course, this is all partial as this is mostly information I'm simply trying to remember. Which is why this isn't a lore post. Anyone can overlook things. Please, for more detailed aspects of Ogres and Hive in general, go read the grimoire. It's all fascinating stuff. And if you're waiting for Taken to spawn or someone to come around to the Archon's Forge or waiting in orbit with a raid group because 3 out of 6 people need to suddenly go to the bathroom, reading Grimoire is an excellent way to burn time.