state of decay 2 if you wanna see a dev that likes their players. It has its problems but just peep all the free updates and changes they're making even 4yrs in free ones at that, I wouldn't say bungie loves or hates us true but i will say they're simply greedy pos

I will include that players should be allowed to vocalize their discontent in the hopes that the product will be better.

I think peeps get upset because bungie used to be the homie that’d kick back and play games with you for a heckin good time; now they’re the corporate stiff that works too much and doesn’t want to chill anymore, and secretly does drugs behind the dumpster.

"They make a product." - Which has turned into a shite product. "Have whatever opinion you want about their work, but stop with this toxic attachment to people who only signed up to make a product." But them lying through their teeth to sell it isn't toxic? For a studio wanting to make money off this product. They are doing their very best to make sure that money goes to other studios.

See, it's the transactional nature that has people upset... We are giving them money. We want a better, working product. I don't think anyone is "attached" to a Dev and if they are it's seriously weird behavior but not at all the reason for the overall intensity of the playerbase right now. We're just disgruntled customers. At least a lot of us anyways.

Many people have been fans of Bungie for 20+ years. Many people grew to love the organization after years of playing one of the most enjoyable games of all time, weekly carnage and community game nights, a close-knit community where gamers, mods, and employees took part in conversations on the daily. However, as Bungie has grown and their pockets have swelled, they have become more distant and their product has lost flair. That is why people are upset. Maybe Bungie has gone cold, or are giving the perception as such, because they are organizing new projects, teams, models, and plans to move forward and offer more products and better products. That seems like the logical thing to after scoring a 3 billion dollar sale. But instead we have been playing a game of recycled content for a year now. Broken raid and dungeon mechanics, unhappy PvP player base, boring seasonal stories while offering little-to-no window into their future or plans. Trust me, I can put the game away and forget about it. I can save my money and not play for a year or two (as I've done in the past). But I can also still be upset with the state of the game and the state of the community. [quote]Ain't nothing between us but a transaction.[/quote] Once upon a time, that wasn't true. Bungie used to do a damn good job of making us feel valued and constantly gave back to us. But lately, it just isn't that way anymore.

Well, you are kinda right. But Bungies marketing clearly fuels the emotionality when it comes to the community. They constantly convey the idea that they, just like you, are enthusiastic gamers, that just got lucky being able to earn their money with what they love. They also try to create the image of Bungie being a company in a garage. Furthermore, they are also aware how to create evangelists by generating hype with speculative false promises like videos and teasers. They want people to be hyped and emotionally invested, They even go so far as to offer pre-sales in a time that do NOT require pre-sales. So yes, they are a corporate company creating a product- But they damn well know that gaming is a highly emotional market. Their currency is "hope" and using Dopamine to get us hooked.

[quote](Copy-Paste of a reply left under a post I'm not going to link for obvious reasons) Destiny Players: Let go of this idea that devs love or hate you. They are not your friends. We are not their friends. They make a product. We purchase the product or not. We play it or not. A good product does not mean they like you. A bad product does not mean they have disdain for you. This dichotomy is in your mind and it's unhealthy. Ain't nothing between us but a transaction. And it's because people got this weird social dynamic with professionals that gamers get irrationally emotional about things in gaming (good or bad). No good comes of this dependency, as evidence by so many threads reading like Dear John letters or acting like Bungie is an abusive spouse. It's weird. Have whatever opinion you want about their work, but stop with this toxic attachment to people who only signed up to make a product. Edit: That guys read this and interpreted it as me defending Bungie is everything you need to know. And it may be time, also, for people to learn about financial responsibility. Point From My Replies: [quote]in fact you should infer by now I was being just as critical of the gaming industry's "hello fellow kids" engagement style, but that's another subject I may get into.[/quote][/quote] They, bingle are solely responsible for all the good, bad, and broken in this game Kind of lays on their shoulders

What’s dichotomy

Seriously? If you buy a new BMW (car), wouldn't you be annoyed with the car dealer if he sold you trash? You would be all over his counter and scream at him if he sold you a full price new car but in reality it's trash tech from the 90's. Stop trying to defend a company that takes the ZERO effort route with their "content" while cashing out more and more, literally scamming their loyal customers.

[quote](Copy-Paste of a reply left under a post I'm not going to link for obvious reasons) Destiny Players: Let go of this idea that devs love or hate you. They are not your friends. We are not their friends. They make a product. We purchase the product or not. We play it or not. A good product does not mean they like you. A bad product does not mean they have disdain for you. This dichotomy is in your mind and it's unhealthy. Ain't nothing between us but a transaction. And it's because people got this weird social dynamic with professionals that gamers get irrationally emotional about things in gaming (good or bad). No good comes of this dependency, as evidence by so many threads reading like Dear John letters or acting like Bungie is an abusive spouse. It's weird. Have whatever opinion you want about their work, but stop with this toxic attachment to people who only signed up to make a product.[/quote] I don’t give a shite if they like me or not. As a paying customer it doesn’t matter. All that matters is that Bungie holds up their end of the transaction, and provides me with a quality product. Do you understand that? In exchange for the money I give them, they are to provide me with a game that runs as advertised. I have held up my end of the deal, they have my money, where is my working, quality product in return? So please get off you Bungie soapbox and start holding them responsible for the pile of garbage that Destiny 2 is right now.

While I can dismiss a lot of the hate they get as angry toxic folks, calling a spade a spade is important for feedback. It's one thing for new content to contain mistakes. Maybe they tried something new and it flopped. Mistakes are human nature, and not always the fault of the people actually doing the job. Weaknesses in management, investor interference, a lot of back door decisions get made and we only see the results, not the process. I'm more than happy to give Bungie a break if they mess up while trying something new. However, that same break does NOT extend to recycled content. This is a product that is KNOWN. It has data, feedback and structure already in place. They aren't starting from scratch and they've done this before. But having the bugs, poor optimizations and other faults remain in the content is bad form. It's extremely unprofessional behaviour. Their excuse for not cutting that delay between the boss and the last Headless One was that there wasn't enough time left in the event to fix it. [i]That was last year.[/i] There's been plenty of time since then to fix it. But it was likely left sitting on the back burner because the event was over, we can deal with it some other time. But the new cosmetics, the event pass and everything that was monetized was accessible and functional. Rather than producing a quality product that would incentivize people to make purchases, they went straight for "Give us your money". Now again, I get it: A company exists to make money. But consumer/producer respect means better growth. Making your customers angry is bad business practice. People who trust their providers are more inclined to make purchases because they trust the quality will be good. Releasing poor quality content is WORSE than releasing no content. There's a reason Season of the Worthy saw a massive drop in playerbase and a lot of content creators abandoned the game. You can't please everybody. That much is unquestionable. But you CAN please some people. And Bungie is very much NOT doing that right now.

Right, only content creators are allowed to do that

I've been beating this drum for years, but Bungie does indeed hate this community.

[quote] They are not your friends. We are not their friends. [/quote] After reading your other reply about this I had to stop and think how misleading this is when it comes to the devs, and even some of the hire-ups with their comments in TWABS, Articles, Twitter, and even in live streams about how business play into this trying to get players attached. It's overused with this business, especially with the fluff TWABS. Trying to sound personal, a business that is a business first and foremost. What it comes down to is using keywords as if they are listening when in fact those keywords are just being used in hopes to put some players at ease and a lot of players buy into it. Some players will go way overboard with the thought process that "Bungie cares about them", when in fact they are just a number like everyone else.

I don't know why anyone needs to white knight for anything involving a video game.

I will not calm down! <flails>

Building a game is less about creating art and more about making profit. Been that way since online gaming took off way back in the late 2000s and early 2010s. Call of Duty and Halo were pioneers of that concept of profit over art. Sure, their campaigns had memorable moments, but not a single person reminisces on playing their campaigns. Even WoW didn't feel like a money grab back in 2004. In the beginning, it truly did feel like Bungie was creating art with Destiny. At least to me, which is what drew me into the FPS looter shooter concept. Something rather new and unheard of rather than the tried and true "pew pew noob tube go brrrrr" experience people were coming to be familiar with. But unfortunately, it seems they've tapped into an business model that really does seem to milk fans of their money. And you are 100% correct, there does seem to be tons of people out there who feel okay with this model and don't feel exploited for monetary gain. This game has become nothing more than a mere guilty pleasure for me, hoping that the story (or lack thereof) I got mixed up with all those years ago gets the resolution they're supposedly touting with The Final Shape. I don't even recommend the game anymore; I actually tell people to not even bother with it. Most actually take my advice. Imagine having fans of your game telling others it's not worth spending money on at this point. It really is the interest in closure that keeps me giving them financial support. But I have to say, I'm getting older and my patience in the story is wearing thin. I'd like to see the end. But with all the better games I've found, it's hard to wanna keep my loyalty to my Hunter when I feel like just letting him fade away.

If I'm not passionate about sth, I'm gone. Once I am cool and calm about a game, I don't play that game any more. Of course I don't expect them to listen to me specifically, but to be honest - they did sth about a lot of stuff that I complained about since I started playing. That means other people had the same stuff to conplain about and the devs realised it was not good as well, so they changed it.