Matchmaking in this game is really the worst I’ve ever had the displeasure to experience. Casual modes need to have relatively equal opposition to even be considered casual. Btw why can’t we have mode choice like the first game?

Good stuff as usual, Sols. Sounds like this is NOT the time to return hoping for great PvP experiences.

Something changed again in matchmaking a few weeks back. It went from occasional curb stomping to almost every game. Below is one example of why am I playing these guys. Elo 1005, 1464, 1090, 811, 1224, 1031, avg 1104 vs Elo 2250, 2473, 2612, 2859, 1436, 1268, avg 2150 In a dick move they quit capping zones to avoid the mercy rule. Just so they could pad stats. Final score 140-47.

Its quickplay. This is how social gamelists work and always have. Sorry but ya'll a bunch of crybabies that get butthurt the un-often times you match 1%ers You've got comp and rumble and ib when it's up if you only want skillbracket games, not every gametype has to revolve around you If you go qp remember there are better kids, sometimes you match em, sometimes you dont, have fun and dont get mad about it, never seen this type of whining about it before in any community, no wonder d2 is trash

People who pubstomp don’t want to play against players at their skill level. That includes the content creators and the people who get ego from their false KD. This has been a complaint and caused players to leave since what? Season 3? They don’t care and aren’t going to change it.

I don’t even play crapcicle any more. No point. If I wanted to play PvP I’d go play a game made for PvP.

The one factor that goes into skill fullness and the whole argument behind cbmm or sbmm is skill itself. Whether you got thumbs or not. The one and only way to increase skillfullness is a game like destiny is to keep practicing and playing. For those players you “whine” about all the time, they’ve probably had years of practice. I know I had. When I started during the dark below I was straight trash with the only little practice I had coming from halo. I averaged a regular negative kd in every game I played back then. I couldn’t snipe, I couldn’t maneuver with a shotgun. After some practice and the years passed, I am glad to say that I have improved greatly. My kds from destiny 1 and destiny 2 reflect that tremendously. This is most likely the case for those always negative kds, they are pve players and have little to no pvp coordination or practice. Bungie’s choice to keep cbmm was the better choice. If you’re always playing against the same tier level as you and never harder, will you ever strive to make yourself better so you can compete? Sbmm would also be an issue I’ve seen countless times in D1 where the skilled player would make what is called a “second account” for those easy games so sbmm would have no real effect. If a player is garbage at something, it means they haven’t had practice, it doesn’t mean the system is flawed

"Top tier" players or so-called top tier players are apparently too pusillanimous to go up against one another. The skilled players in this game seem to be afraid of going up against each other, because they seem to resist sbmm the most, them and the venerated streamers. If they wanted an actual Challenge they would be crying out for it as this community is wont to do. My assessment. the so called "gud" players are afraid to play eachother because they know it would shift their K/D and the balance of power So much they won't be able to waggle their giant phalanxes like "Gods" in front of midcore and casual payers any more to feel a sort of stupid superiority. With respect to my clan members who play PVP, I understand the mindset. You guys are gooooooood. talented with a controller, keyboard, mouse whatever... so play eachother so I don't have to feel like trash- if I'm categorized in a lower tier- so that I can actually play against my tier- thats fine!

[quote]It's just not fun never having good matches because 90% of the games we play are just completely tilted.[/quote]Bullshit. You match 1% players maybe 1/20 games, it's about time you stopped using a single game here and there to try and push your agenda of not wanting to match good players. [quote]But the reality is that the game is putting them against opponents they have no business facing.[/quote]They have plenty business matching those opponents - were talking about quickplay here, aka fast matches and the quickest possible matchmaking, you enter there be prepared to face the world - that means everyone. [quote]When 6v6 returned to QuickPlay and brought with it the bug that removed skill factoring, the community response was so positive and the pressure from feedback so overwhelming to keep it out, they went with it. Unfortunately we never saw how fun QuickPlay could have still been with it enabled just from the change to 6v6 and the subsequent sandbox changes with Forsaken.[/quote]The decision was celebrated 2 fold. 1 for 6vs6 2 for no-sbmm This is further proven by community response to sbmm in Y2 of D1 where the entire community rebelled for 2 weeks and bungie was literally forced to make an immediate change, unlikely they'll want to face that horde again. [quote]I understand why the decision was made, but I've been posting numbers on this for the last month and I think they very clearly show this isn't just hurting the experience of 90% of the player base[/quote]Youce been posting a game every now and again - you have played hundreds of matches and can only pick and choose a handful of them, this is completely expected from a non-ranked playlist and is working as intended and as the non-competitive playlist should. 90%? Dont kid yourself, numbers haven't gone down at any unexpected rate, pvp still sits around 800K which it has since Warmind, by comparison coo with its sbmm had 200K....its literally only you and a handful of other forumites here that can accept the fact that they will sometimes match better players and theres nothing wrong with that. [quote]I know I'm not the only one who is tired of what is essentially sanctioned griefing in QuickPlay and I hope that others add their voices in constructive ways to let the devs know that it's not just Comp that needs to be reworked.[/quote]Nothing needs to be reworked, quickplay is random based matchmaking, you might wreck, might get wrecked and might have close games. You want close, even, [u]competitive[/u] games only? Theres a playlist for that. You already have SBMM in banner, comp and rumble. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO HAVE EVERY PLAYLIST CATER TO YOU. Go to those playlists, deal with the fact that you will sometimes match good players in qp or you dont have to play pvp. It's that simple, I personally am astonished you think making repeated posts the few times you match good players will accomplish anything, the time of catering to casual players was tried and failed for d2, qp is an honest assessment of where you stand globally rather then sitting in your protective bubble matchmaking only. SBMMs design as a participation trophy system where everyone has a 1.0 and 50% win loss is not how non-ranked pvp in gaming works, even on actual competitive games like halo 3, you dont see halo players complaining about matching good players in social playlists like btb, this is a destiny crybaby standard - something new to gaming and something pretty sad. [spoiler]Edit: Also I'd like to point out ops 5 recent games: Loss - 98 - 100 Win - 151 - 117 Loss - 48 - 99 Win - 128 - 126 Win - 133 - 100 Seems like he had some games he stomped others, some games he got stomped and some games that were close.....exactly as a non-ranked playlist should and does work. This isnt the first time I've pointed out his recent history to counter the one game he brings up but he knows that full well.[/spoiler]

I know some of these "top 500" players. They're too obsessed about their precious elo ratings to never ever go play even quickplay solo. Obsession about numbers can get rather poisonous. Talk about a snake eating it's own tail..

I don't necessarily blame the match making. I blame the sand box. In D1 I had what I fwlt were powerful tools to defend myself no later what I was up against. It doesn't feel that was in this game. There was a larger list of strong weapons to choose from if I didn't want to play meta and, I had more control of my ability and super cool downs. In D2 I see too many scenarios where I feel as though my hands are tied and the only choice I have is to run where I would have tossed a well placed grenade, scattered them, and pic a few of the off before I get dropped. The real answer imo is that abilities, supers, and primaries need an across the board buff to help players defend them selves from getting aped by groups.

Great post. I'm sure Bungie read it. I'm also sure (at least right now), they don't care. They are ignoring this issue even though it clearly demands a response. They are too afraid to publicly affirm the current system as "good" (basically just take it or shut-up and leave), and even more afraid it would seem to say anything that could offend the minority that currently benefits from the pub-stomps. So they say nothing.

I've quit crucible completely because of this. I'm not afraid of challenge but there is no environment for improvement when you die every 20 seconds. I can hold my own against a more narrow window of my skill peers and that's when it's most fun. But it seems only top tier player get to have fun. Or worse the excuse that they deserve to have fun (at other's expense) There's no place for the mid tier player anymore in either mode. And no in don't want to play comp because those modes were made to be more inherently sweaty. I'll be playing BFV until then.

It’s not so much as the sandbox’s fault, it’s the weapons that made everything much more annoying. First off not a complaint in the slightest, I’m a above average PvP player. Have Luna and if I tried in the beginning of the ForSaken I would’ve had the NF no problem neither. The introduction to Luna and how many players currently playing the Crucible with said weapon and along with the rise of Shotgun Warrioring Players, the crucible is in a pretty bad spot, even with Shotgun Warrioring still being a thing from the other Destiny. With Luna and NF being around almost all guns have no place in going against them. Literally every gun can’t achieve that kill time those guns have, and to strike it in another note, it’s [u]EXTREMELY[/u] easy to achieve those ttk with those 2 individual Primaries. So yeah, you can blame the 2 weapons for the crucible, and Shotgun Warrioring, tbh I wouldn’t want the sandbox to be touched, and honestly I’m disappointed on how Luna and NF was given, unlike the redrixs in Season3 it’s completely easier to unlock those guns, and truthfully, I know some players who say they can’t unlock it but tbh as a current PvP player, and currently seeing more lower tiered players getting Luna/NF. It’s being given out like candy. Some people don’t want to hear it, but the Last Word, will not be good against those weapons, especially if the atrocious recoil hand cannons have currently aren’t addressed in Console. TLDR: There’s a lot of good changes but there was a lot of bad and easy weapons to gain. The sandbox has some issues but unfortunately Bungie did some wrongs here. The matchmaking would be in a better spot had the sandbox not introduce Luna/NF. Primaries need to be in a better spot to compete against specific parts of the Meta; along with Special weapons.

I mean there's two extremes here right? Full-on SBMM: Bad players never see average plays never see great players. Everyone has a 50% win rate and every game is sweaty as -blam!-. No SBMM at all: Bad players lose to average players lose to good players. The higher your skill the better you perform. The former is basically the PvP equivalent of the Fikrul strike. "-blam!- you for being good, suffer like everyone else." You could argue that's how comp *should* be, but Bingie's given their reason for it not being that.

Even with all of your stats we cannot turn qp into comp. qp will always be stomped or get stomped. If you want close matches against people of your skill that is what comp is for. Nobody goes into qp thinking they are facing equal opponents. Its a fun game mode you play with your friends, can't help that some people have good friends.