Similar post: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/261160056
TLDR: Dungeons are getting more difficult but will reach a threshold where solo becomes unfeasible for most, scaling resolves the issue / dungeons are too easy for fireteams who want a challenge, scaling resolves the issue.
Bungie: "We scaled difficulty for the Witch Queen Campaign based on the number of players."
Community: "Hey that's awesome, we love this and the campaign! You did the same thing for the dungeons, right ?"
Bungie: "..."
Community: "...right?"
I have a solo flawless completion of all dungeons except Grasp which I have not had the time to do. I say this to give relevant context.
I have long held the belief that difficultly need be scaled in dungeons to give a challenge to full fireteams whilst not being overwhelming for solo players. This issue has been previously demonstrated in the low health of the Shattered Throne dungeon bosses (too easy/short) and the very high health of the Grasp of Avarice dungeon bosses (too long). Recently I have had time enough to attempt the Duality dungeon and it was atrocious, specifically for two reasons:
1 - The timer in the nightmare realm is insanely short.
With the large amount of ads present and the need to complete mechanics precisely being solo severely punishes the player for suboptimal gameplay, not for making mistakes. This is particularly an issue in unlocking the vault (second encounter) where suboptimal damage on a cabal shield takes away 1 or 2 seconds and a wipe will soon follow. It takes the solo experience from being a reasonable challenge (like Prophesy or the Grasp dungeon) and turns it into an unnecessary rage filled sweat quest.
In summary, the timer makes being slightly suboptimal a wipeable offence instead of requiring you to do an additional phase such as with the Shattered Throne boss. The timer should be extended for solo players.
2 - The physics deaths are 'unfair' in a word
When you are running around dealing with countless ads on a timer where 1 second of suboptimal play means a wipe you simply don't have the time to check for all of the enemies and cues that will result in an insta-death by receiving too hard of a nudge. Nothing more to say here other than since, 'git gud' isn't an option when dying by these means it feels like bad game design.
This is a deep issue in destiny and needs to be addressed as it does not allow for a fair game.
To note I have not been able to unlock the vault door and have, therefore, been unable to fight [spoiler][/Caiatl]. As it stands the boss heath in the first encounter seems to be in a more reasonable position when compared to both of the Grasp dungeon bosses with the Nightmare of Gahlran being easily done in 4 phases.
Ultimately, I believe that the vast majority of the destiny community would appreciate difficulty scaling for the Dungeons in order to make a better experience for BOTH solo players and fireteams. With adjusted boss health, mechanic timers and a reconciliation of the physics, as in the Witch Queen Campaign, the dungeons can simultaneously provide a reasonable challenge to both groups without being overwhelming for solo players or underwhelming for fireteams. Let me know how you feel?
FINAL EDIT: Clearly few people have actually read the full post and instead have just reacted with the first thing that came to mind, but what else should I have expected on the internet. Ultimately, there is a lack of understanding that dungeons will get more difficult making solos more exclusive but never difficult enough to satisfy the PVE fireteams, hence scaling is needed as in the WQ campaign. Imagine freaking out at the suggestion that the Nightmare realm timer should be extended by a few seconds in the normal mode to make it more enjoyable but still a challenge. Imagine gatekeeping because of the idea that people who only have 1hr a day to play the game want to have a better normal mode endgame experience with the possibility of elective difficulty for others.
Also beat the encounter, opinion hasn't changed. Thanks to those who offered advice.
English
#destiny2
-
I have 3 issues with it outside the bugs where you die from the bells for no reason. 1) Would be nice for boss health to scale based on fireteam size. That way it could be tailored so that bosses are normally 2 phased once the encounter is learned regardless of team size. Single phase could also be done with the proper combination of gear, buffs and de-buffs. 2) Missing a stun on Caiatl should just cause you to lose that bell's round of damage and not send you back to the normal realm to start over. 3) The solo triumph should track completing each encounter solo like how it works for raid triumphs that are encounter based. I personally don't think completing it solo in a single run should matter, especially when the triumph is to complete each encounter solo. For solo flawless, yes a single run for obvious reasons.
-
2 RepliesThe only thing I'd say maybe could be scaled is boss health, like 4 or 5 phases for ghalran is a bit much.
-
2 RepliesSounds like you just need some additional practice.
-
The short timer was a problem I had at first but I got good enough that it was only a problem if something went wrong. I also think most of the difficulty comes from how horrible the physics are and the bellkeeper's leaving their backpacks on the floor which one shot you and sometimes can be hiding. If they reduced the range or damage of the backpacks and found a way to fix the physics (Though it's been broken since D1) it would be way easier.
-
13 RepliesI think this is always a tricky debate in destiny, whenever the topic of difficulty comes up there will always be extreme opinions seemingly born out of nothing in regards to “making the game casual”, i agree that the timers in duality ( 2nd encounter mostly ) are pretty tight though, i think some of the opinions iv read are pretty silly, people act like any reduction in difficulty in any content at all ever in the history of destiny will suddenly make it super easy and even new players with new loot will just be storming the gates of endgame and claiming all the rewards that everyone else suffered for, but like lets be honest would adding like 10extra seconds to the nighmare timer really suddenly make duality the “crotas end” on dungeons no, it will almost certainy still be the hardest one.
-
I just wish they would finally put difficulty scaling in dungeons. Regular difficulty for people who like to play solo, where bosses have 1/3 health they usually do (when playing with 2 other people) and where mechanics are more firgiving accordingly. Hard difficulty (that stays the same as when 3 people play) for those who want to get solo flawless, etc. That can't be too much work for them!
-
1 ReplyEdited by Scots King: 7/30/2022 1:18:55 PMI had previously only solo’d one dungeon - PoH but I have now solo’d Duality. While I agree that the vault encounter is by far the hardest part of this dungeon there are ways to make it less frustrating example: If you don’t believe that you can safely get the standard & get back to the bell before the end of the timer just leave without the standard & go back in to collect the standard. The enemies you have killed will not respawn. & don’t even try to get both standards in one visit to nightmare realm. After a lot of practice & getting to know how much time I needed I did not do this but always knew I could if the needed. My solo completion took a long time & mostly because of failures at the vault so my best suggestion would be to cp the vault encounter & practise, practise, practise.
-
3 Replies
Eliksni Gunslinger"We Fight For Great Machine Together" - old
It's already scaled for 1 person, if you want to know what content scaled for 3 people looks like , do legendary witch queen with a full team, takes all your heavy just to get a red bar knight to half health -
this dungeon is at the same level of the others, is not super easy like grasp , when you know cabal bs this dungeon is easy , with this season the easy mode for pve switched from warlock to titan
-
2 Replies
-
1 ReplyYou know, there is a hard mode for most dungeons if you find it too easy?
-
2 RepliesDuality is fine to solo. Some Dungeons are going to be harder than others If you're having trouble in the second Encounter, you could use something like Arbalest, a Wave Frame GL, Erianna's Vow, or any other Anti-Barrier option to bypass the Phalanx shields As for physics based deaths, respect the enemies that can kill you with physics based attacks. Give Bell Keepers and Phalanxes a wide berth, and they can't Architect you out of the game
-
3 Repliesthe bs is more annoying to me. like caiatl blowing up incindior packs and auto one shotting you during dps
-
1 ReplyIt’s fine how it is, let somethings be a challenge
-
2 Replies
ZoidbergWHOOOP WHOOOP - 8/8/2022 9:31:11 PM
Grasp is not even comparable in difficulty to duality. Grasp is the solo flawless equivalent to training wheels. I'm sorry that dungeon hands you it with infinite supers basically. -
Edited by FataLVisioN_Oo: 7/30/2022 7:54:58 AM? Huh lol, you can literally make yourself invincible this season. It was one of the easiest to solo Solar can also wipe an entire room with 1 ability.. so I'm just confused as to why you are saying duality is the hardest
-
The only issue in duality is the one shot deaths from those bells, the sooner they fix them the better.
-
Whole thing why enemy is tough : 1) you just can't be stronger then them, you can be even at best; 2) infinite enemy spawn; 3) bosses are weak and have boring mechanics - but hey they have a lot of support and they your biggest problem; 4) time gated damage phase. Boy, even Skolas had limited amount of his support in Prison of Elders.
-
2 RepliesDifficulty is fine, the jank is not. Too many times I’ve died to the teleport mechanic.
-
7 RepliesThe dungeons are not meant to be done solo its just a fun side thing to do if you feel like trying to do it.
-
1 ReplyIf you’re having trouble in the second encounter just use your super to clear out the adds to get the flag bearer to spawn. The timer on that encounter is definitely one of the hardest aspects of a solo run but the good part is you have unlimited time to kill the bosses once their shield is off. So you don’t need your super to burn the bosses quick.
-
16 RepliesThis is a get good scenario sorry to tell you bud
-
9 RepliesSomething else I've been harping on about since that WQ address. There are literally no good reasons not to have difficulty scaling - that is DIFFICULTY LEVELLING - to the fireteam numbers. 1. It can work both ways. Those in threes can find it not just too easy but way too easy. Then they get bored and ask for even harder difficulty. And without proper scaling, there's a limit to how difficult they can make it without making duo and especially solo near impossible and certainly actually impossible for almost everyone. Scaling solves that issue. 2. For soloplaying you're literally stuck with playing a far harder difficulty. You have no options in that at all. And the rewards for the significantly harder challenge don't come close to meeting. For that difficulty you should get Adept versions, not an emblem that would literally take me 10 minutes to make in Adobe Creative Suite. 3. As far as maintaining a challenge mode that absolutely can be retained at the same time. You equalise the difficulty, you have a drop-down for accolade challenge selection. Challenges shouldn't just be for solos but for duos and trios too. Having 3 different de facto difficulties for each labelled difficulty makes no sense. Rewards should always appropriately match the ACTUAL difficulties. 4. The golden rule: implement Matchmaking; and where MM isn't deemed appropriate then level the difficulty across the fireteam numbers. 5. So no-one will play in a fireteam then? No, it'll still always be somewhat easier. It's often going to be sought after as entertainment in itself. It's still right for friends to hang out and chat. But it won't force an easy mode on one group and force an almost impossible/ far more or too difficult mode on another.
-
6 RepliesDisagree completely it was quite easy had Solo Flawless beat 3 days after it came out.
-
5 RepliesHonestly just tried my first solo of duality getting to first encounter was easy than it just turns into a timing issue with the boss dmg to where you have to do it multiple time to be able to kill it but my only issue is push back/ boss stomp mechanics my only deaths were getting either pushed off by the boss of the bell keepers bopping me off the map but as far as add control it wasn’t that bad solo and timing other than boss dmg I always had still over 10-15 seconds left on the timer but getting push off the map and maybe a lil more time doing boss dmg would be my only gripes with it for the first encounter idk about the rest haven’t made it that far yet lol