[quote]And neither is the traveler the Gardener.
It’s a representation of the 2 sides of Paracausality.[/quote]
I agree.
Whenever the Witness speaks, it is in plurals. (“I is said as “we”). Its syntax is also veeeeery formal.
The Darkness is different. It speaks so casually you wonder if its just a human elevated to another state of mind. This is similar to how the darkness infused ogre speaks to Oryx after he made the Tablets of Ruin.
That then sparks the question, did Oryx serve the Darkness or the Witness AFTER he became Oryx (meaning when he began to Take and his named changed from Auryx)
English
-
Oryx served both. When compared to old lore and the og narrative, the Witness was likely the original Darkness baddie. The addition of the Winnower changed things. Lore-wise The Winnower becomes almost entirely hands off, outside of talking to Oryx. So it never shows itself in the material plane or does anything. Becoming almost as hands off as the Gardner. I noticed how the Gardner gets a gender pronoun but the Winnower doesn’t. It’s just “it”. But the female formed Veiled statue emits Darkness energy… I’m thinking they are the same. Kind of like a two faced god.
-
EverlastingRed0Going on hiatus to slay Heartless - old
[quote]Oryx served both. When compared to old lore and the og narrative, the Witness was likely the original Darkness baddie. The addition of the Winnower changed things. Lore-wise The Winnower becomes almost entirely hands off, outside of talking to Oryx. So it never shows itself in the material plane or does anything. Becoming almost as hands off as the Gardner. I noticed how the Gardner gets a gender pronoun but the Winnower doesn’t. It’s just “it”. But the female formed Veiled statue emits Darkness energy… I’m thinking they are the same. Kind of like a two faced god.[/quote] Huh. Never realized the Gardener was a she. The two faced god makes sense. You know, I wonder if Oryx was almost equal to the Winnower because after he learned to take the Winnower spoke to him…or at least more powerful than the Witness. -
Old D1 lore from Rasputin talking about the Collapse referred to the Traveler as she and the attacking Darkness as IT. Don’t think much else made a gendered reference until Unveiling. Likely due to them not being sure what direction the story was going. From what I’ve heard, the Witnesses power to move worlds is a higher tiered power that Taking is based on. So it’s like Oryx was second string, power wise. Philosophy wise, I’m not sure the Winnower approves of the Witness. It praised Oryx as its champion much like we are the Gardners. The Witness and Rhulk talking about ending everything doesn’t adhere to the Final Shape. Something is supposed to merit surviving according to the Sword Logic. It’s like the Witness took it to the extreme. Might be why it questioned whether or not it would survive to be the Final Shape. But that’s what happens when you teach might makes right. It can bite you in the end.
-
Keep in mind that the “Darkness” attacking during the collapse was the Witness and its black fleet, so it makes sense that Rasputin would call it, well IT haha. The Witness controls the black fleet, but it is definitely defiant to the will of the Winnower given that it wants to just end everything. Why wouldn’t the Winnower step in? As you said, the Winnower is pretty hands off and probably knows the witness will be toppled by something higher in the food chain (us lol). Given the stature of the veiled woman that is always raised above all else in the pyramids, I’d say the gender of the Winnower is female. It would kinda make sense in a “Gemini” sort of way; Twin Goddesses. Who knows, we got that seven sisters shader, maybe there’s like five more out there somewhere hahaha. <— more joke than speculation but who knows, right?
-
I can only think of three reasons why it wouldn’t interfere. Either it wants to win the Wager using pawns to prove its right fair n square, something prevents it or it doesn’t want to risk dying. Seven sisters, myth wise relates to Avalon. King Arthur stuff. The dude who made Ghost in the Shell made a live action movie about it. Cult classic, questioning reality due to vr being so life life. Could be something, the story doesn’t end with the Dark and Light. So they got to come up with something original lol
-
There’s a theory floating around that the Darkness is us but from another universe or time or something (I can’t quite remember), because of the sheer amount of familiarity it uses when talking to us.
-
You talking Eldrich Theory?
-
Yes. scary how similar the light/dark in this is to the light/dark in ffxiv